Bedfordspurs
Bert Smith
We dont create the same opportunities because all out players are behind the ball
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Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
metalgear
Paul Stewart
with both fernandez and tonali in midfield there is no reason for players to attempt through balls
its down to rdz - as we've seen arsenal and Emirates Marketing Project can do that so well with overloads on the flanks and variety in attack to drag defenders.
my guess is that rdz tactics isn't going down well - a through ball goal is like basic football and i am sure the players we have naturally want to do it
Bedfordspurs
Bert Smith
We haven’t played with a 2 man midfield yet and IMO we’re winning in midfield so teams just bypass ours
Finney Is Back
Jimmy Cantrell
I’ve seen a fair few through balls, we’ve just not made the most of them. Other times the player on the ball hasn’t spotted a good run that has been made, or instead takes a simple ‘safe’ option (hangover from Frank maybe?)
Bishop
Ian Walker
We didn't have through ball players under Frank. Maybe Simmons but I think of him as more of an orchestrator/pass and move player than a killer ball player.
MartyFunkhouser
Teddy Sheringham
If there is a hangover from Frank with only 4 players from his time starting, then we are in dire trouble. Maybe there needs to be more ownership on the situation than excuses
Lemonade Money
Barry Daines
You can pinpoint our downturn to the point Levy stepped away from football matters:
Levy appoints Conte. Left us in 4th place.
Levy appoints Munn.
Munn appoints Postecoglou. Left us in 17th place.
Munn appoints Lange.
Lange appoints Frank. Left us in 17th place.
Committee(?) appoints Tudor. Left us in 17th place.
Committee(?) appoints RDZ. Currently bottom.
Lemonade Money
Barry Daines
Going further back, I think we can all agree Redknapp and Postecoglou were Levy appointments (albeit probably with some advice), and they were good times, even if you believe they should have been supported better.
Looking at Levy’s 'failures':
AVB left us in 7th place.
Mourinho left us in 7th place.
Nuno left us in 8th place.
Looking at Levy’s 'failures':
AVB left us in 7th place.
Mourinho left us in 7th place.
Nuno left us in 8th place.
Bishop
Ian Walker
This is true. Too often we see comments about Frank or Ange but at this point yes there is a lot to recover but it's is essentially a whole new team. So, many of the problems from before have been addressed. Whether that has been done successfully is open to debate and time will tell but we can't really blame Frank or Ange at this imo.
At the same time I don't think the changes mean everything should be running perfectly already, but the problems of today are exactly that, the problems of today not of the past.
MartyFunkhouser
Teddy Sheringham
Ridiculous to even suggest its due to Frank
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Andy Thompson
If you look back to the predictions on this site before a ball was kicked you can see people's expectations were far too optimistic.
We have virtually played with a new keeper, back four, midfield and forward line. Its going to take time (something in short supply in football). I hoping to see some improvement in our scoring which will certainly help with taking the pressure off the team and confidence. I've only seen games on TV but there has looked to be some progress in our play and moving the ball quicker we just need to get that 1st goal in a game and reduce the tension.
We have virtually played with a new keeper, back four, midfield and forward line. Its going to take time (something in short supply in football). I hoping to see some improvement in our scoring which will certainly help with taking the pressure off the team and confidence. I've only seen games on TV but there has looked to be some progress in our play and moving the ball quicker we just need to get that 1st goal in a game and reduce the tension.
Baleforce
Joe Kinnear
I stand by my vote, I might be the only one who was right
Lemonade Money
Barry Daines
This post is far too optimistic.
Don't agree, and the comment is beyond the scope of RDZ.
Over the last 3 seasons (including this one), the team has (not hyperbole) lost the ability to win almost any games, and while our fans and critics are happy to jump on board and brick on the team/squad/gaps, just compare our results to fudging Leeds or Everton or Sunderland or Ipswich, and I'd bet their managers would all take our squad in a full swap without a 2nd thought.
I don't have the answer, but somehow we are in a spiral, doesn't matter player/manager, we haven't reset out of that 2nd Ange season and we better fudging figure it out soon.
There is a big difference between being mid table underperforming than being 17th-20th performance
Mikey10
Ian Walker
I just can’t see us winning at Old Trafford unfortunately. I don’t think the players currently have the mental strength to do it.
Muttley
Vedran Corluka
I think RDZ's biggest challenge is to change the culture at the football club and instil some proper standards amongst the playing group. He also needs players that are fully committed to him and will leave it all out there when they cross the white line. Ange had that part but he never instilled a culture that losing must hurt like crazy. Quite the opposite actually. Both him and Frank created a culture where it is OK to lose as long as you're following my instructions as a coach. If you do that then I will take the bullets for you. That simply doesn't work in sport. Frank didn't even have the commitment piece. What a mess.
It could go either way with RDZ. We've seen the reaction to Richi. The moment the club enforces standards, they get lambasted by their own fans because of the culture problem. However, that doesn't mean that the players didn't embrace a strong message about that scenario and aren't feeling the pain of losing more with this manager. I don't think he's scared to make them feel that, but he's also pretty complimentary when he knows they've just had the bad rub.
Not sure, maybe it's definition of culture/mentality/whatever (conversation I had with @thfcsteff), it feels like a lazy narrative, this squad has lost more than anyone bar relegated sides for two and change seasons now (and some of them went down with better home records than us). I know @Bishop will say the squad is that bad, but again don't agree, the inability to win anything is way beyond the squad quality now. Professional athletes don't like to lose, it's not like they are dialing it in.
To me, there are two possible answers (not sure if someone has another?)
- There is some mystery "loser" mentality/culture in Tottenham that suddenly appeared in late stage of Ange's first season and despite changing pretty much the whole team bar 3 or 4 and the manager 3 times, still has stuck with us. I say only since then as despite Jose/Conte bitching, those sides won games, got 4th, got European spots
- Disaster managerial appointments, Ange simply failed tactically at the PL level, Frank failed tactically and motivationally, RDZ came initially and without changing too much seemed to pick up the team, but with new season he's gone full RDZ system and the question now is, is his bait/press tactic 3 years behind for the PL? his oddities re the #10 position is seriously limiting us. And yes, injuries, gaps in certain areas has hurt, but I'd say again and again, not 17th-20th worse team in PL valid.
I'm not pretending to know the answer, but if I look at the two choices, while 4 bad manager choices in a row seems highly unlikely (or not knowing our leadership), vs. some narrative that is simply impossible to define (but easy stick to beat the players with), I'm more likely to believe the manager is the issue.
Re the Richi thing, I have no issue with picking manager over player but the disaster is the execution. As is typical Spurs, we didn't get rid of him in time, and we didn't give ourselves the change to use him if the inevitable emergency happened. Giving him a squad number and leaving him out of the match day squad would have given us way more options and protected his value more than the approach we have taken. That brickshow I put on Lange/Vinai/etc more than RDZ.
glorygloryeze
Nayim
Very interesting post and you raise some good points.
However, I wanted to challenge the last part re Richi: how can the blame for ultimately leaving out Richi from the PL be out on Lange/Vinai?
No one has forced RDZ to leave him out of the PL squad. He could have kept him in the squad and still only used him in emergencies. Whether leaving him out is good or bad, surely that was down to RDZ?
Bishop
Ian Walker
I think the qualities about abilities of
Id say the squad was that bad, especially taking into account who we actually had fit and available to play. I don't think the squad is that bad anymore honestly. I think it now has a lot of promise but it needs to time to turn that promise into results. That's where RDZ Ian going to need to get working quickly because the fan base has lost its willingness for patience given what has happened over the last few years. He needs result and he needs them in the short term.