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ENIC

The players we signed carried interest from big clubs and commanded top wages. I don’t think it’s a matter of we inflated their wages, we entered the ballpark at which they were going to get paid with us or another club and we moved decisively enough to get the deals done. These are the top players this window.

If theres another echelon of players that would make people happy that we are spending the money then I would say it’s probably the Kane, Bellingham, Vini Jr level which is unrealistic for pretty much all clubs. I just don’t get why John McGinn would offer more excitement than Tonali!? The choice would be to sign a Bellingham level player or sign another Bergval / Gray equivalent so that we aren’t being seen to spend ‘too much’ money.

To me it seems like people are being a bit cautious - of course it’s all new and nothing is guaranteed to work. But it is guaranteed that we will never challenge for the big trophies if we don’t do what we are doing now. If we’re making out that there’s a different level between John McGinn and Tonali then I’d say we are nit picking a bit too much.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I’m not sure why a Mitoma or a Bowen or a Watkins or a McGinn deserves to be on this list any more than a Tonali, Fernandes or Van Hecke?
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Season after season of playing to a consistent level.
I included them to indicate it's not about being the top top player but that you can 100% say they're proven PL players.

That's mainly going to come with time served.

If you don't use those parameters...then that's where we differ...as I said before.

Looking at the history of some our signings, I wouldn't call them proven. Thats not me getting hung up on it...just again saying we probably quantify it differently.

And once I'm up to the £85-95m mark and 250k+ a week....I'm 100% looking to minimise the question marks.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
The players we signed carried interest from big clubs and commanded top wages. I don’t think it’s a matter of we inflated their wages, we entered the ballpark at which they were going to get paid with us or another club and we moved decisively enough to get the deals done. These are the top players this window.

If theres another echelon of players that would make people happy that we are spending the money then I would say it’s probably the Kane, Bellingham, Vini Jr level which is unrealistic for pretty much all clubs. I just don’t get why John McGinn would offer more excitement than Tonali!? The choice would be to sign a Bellingham level player or sign another Bergval / Gray equivalent so that we aren’t being seen to spend ‘too much’ money.

To me it seems like people are being a bit cautious - of course it’s all new and nothing is guaranteed to work. But it is guaranteed that we will never challenge for the big trophies if we don’t do what we are doing now. If we’re making out that there’s a different level between John McGinn and Tonali then I’d say we are nit picking a bit too much.
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You missing the point and conflating stuff...so I'll leave it there.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Season after season of playing to a consistent level.
I included them to indicate it's not about being the top top player but that you can 100% say they're proven PL players.

That's mainly going to come with time served.

If you don't use those parameters...then that's where we differ...as I said before.

Looking at the history of some our signings, I wouldn't call them proven. Thats not me getting hung up on it...just again saying we probably quantify it differently.

And once I'm up to the £85-95m mark and 250k+ a week....I'm 100% looking to minimise the question marks.
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I'm late to this conversation so forgive me if I've missed the point.

PL experience or no PL experience doesn't really matter. Only the players quality and suitability to a teams system and plans.

With PL purchases you are typically going to pay a bit more than you will for more of an unknown quantity, I don't think either approach is inherently better than the other and ideally we would mix and match where appropriate. I would caveat that given the nature of last 2 seasons I can see the sense and logic of going for players who do have PL experience because at least on paper there is less adaptation neccesary for them.
 
Bishop said:
I'm late to this conversation so forgive me if I've missed the point.

PL experience or no PL experience doesn't really matter. Only the players quality and suitability to a teams system and plans.

With PL purchases you are typically going to pay a bit more than you will for more of an unknown quantity, I don't think either approach is inherently better than the other and ideally we would mix and match where appropriate. I would caveat that given the nature of last 2 seasons I can see the sense and logic of going for players who do have PL experience because at least on paper there is less adaptation neccesary for them.
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To get the context you'd have to read thru...
If you haven't read thru, I wouldn't bother :)
 
DTA said:
I loved Poch and I wouldn’t have sacked him when Levy did. But we got champs league with Conte. Plus won a cup with Ange.

These new pricķs have shown nothing by regression
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You realise ‘the new pricks’ (as you so eloquently put it) have been in place for just over a year. For some of that time Levy was still running the club. Vinci only really took sole control of the reigns 11 months ago.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.

ie there are always good/bad examples on both sides of the argument...so nullifies the point of the argument in the first place
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So the silly game was me having an opinion that signing players who have already proven they can cope with PL football is less of a gamble?

I’ve no idea why you think having an opinion is a silly game?
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
The players we signed carried interest from big clubs and commanded top wages. I don’t think it’s a matter of we inflated their wages, we entered the ballpark at which they were going to get paid with us or another club and we moved decisively enough to get the deals done. These are the top players this window.

If theres another echelon of players that would make people happy that we are spending the money then I would say it’s probably the Kane, Bellingham, Vini Jr level which is unrealistic for pretty much all clubs. I just don’t get why John McGinn would offer more excitement than Tonali!? The choice would be to sign a Bellingham level player or sign another Bergval / Gray equivalent so that we aren’t being seen to spend ‘too much’ money.

To me it seems like people are being a bit cautious - of course it’s all new and nothing is guaranteed to work. But it is guaranteed that we will never challenge for the big trophies if we don’t do what we are doing now. If we’re making out that there’s a different level between John McGinn and Tonali then I’d say we are nit picking a bit too much.
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But we have challenged for the big trophies by spending smart, not big, we nearly won everything with a spine of Dier, Winks, Eriksen, Alli and Kane, how much that cost to put together.

We’ve lost our way and spending money like this makes us no more likely to succeed imo.

It’s who you buy not how much you pay them that matters.
 
Baleforce said:
But we have challenged for the big trophies by spending smart, not big, we nearly won everything with a spine of Dier, Winks, Eriksen, Alli and Kane, how much that cost to put together.

We’ve lost our way and spending money like this makes us no more likely to succeed imo.

It’s who you buy not how much you pay them that matters.
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The last sentence is absolutely true. There is a correlation though of the teams with the biggest wage bills winning almost all of the trophies (not guaranteed to be causation though of course)
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Season after season of playing to a consistent level.
I included them to indicate it's not about being the top top player but that you can 100% say they're proven PL players.

That's mainly going to come with time served.

If you don't use those parameters...then that's where we differ...as I said before.

Looking at the history of some our signings, I wouldn't call them proven. Thats not me getting hung up on it...just again saying we probably quantify it differently.

And once I'm up to the £85-95m mark and 250k+ a week....I'm 100% looking to minimise the question marks.
Click to expand...

I’m sorry, I’m clearly still just not getting it.

In football and in general career ladders, there are fast risers. They are the ones you want because they have the potential and very quickly rise through the ranks. Our signings this summer are I’d say almost all in that category. The reason you don’t go for players that have spent years and years in mid table is because that’s basically been their level.

Tonali is absolutely as proven as McGinn. I don’t care that he’s been in the PL 3 seasons or whatever it is. If we want to challenge we should be signing the players that will be on their way to top clubs, not signing ones that have taken a decade or more to find their feet (general rule, I’m not saying there can’t be value in this bracket, but it’s not a strategy to win things consistently). And if we’re looking at spending 100m and 250k a week, it’s going to be Tonali, or it’s going to basically be someone at Bellingham’s level and would cost even more.

I only ever said proven in relation to the debate between ‘has shown they can perform in this league’ and the signings from abroad eg N’Dombele. If I’m missing something else here I’ll hold my hands up.
 
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