World Cup 2026: Mexico, USA and Canada

[glorygloryeze?]

Dominated by a possession midfield.

Dominated once again again by a possessionally strong midfield, short passes and interplay galore.

Not so much out played by possession but out gunned and that France side always looked to have another gear if they needed it. Just lost too. Stronger side.

Dominated by a possession side.

Poor tactically but again dominated by a heavy possession side.

So of those losses, they all came against teams far better on the ball other than France who didn't really play that way but did have the better individuals.

The type of passers I'm referring to are the short range possession style guys. Players good at receiving on the half and heavily pressing resistant, players who can probe and just as well as they can keep it ticking.

Yes Argentina have Messi, but take him out of that team and they are still a short passing heavy possession side. That is culturally their style, they were this before Messi and will be that after Messi.

England were dominated in midfield by Norway because they have Odegard, a linker in midfield, England have no linker or player with similar attributes. England's strengths are pace and power, let's not pretend otherwise.

Yet again, you're refusing to acknowledge the players Tuchel decided to leave out of the squad: MGW, Wharton and Palmer are all players with technique and who can play possession games and link play. Ditto Trent, Grealish. Heck, one might even say Maddison.

Those previous losses weren't because England naturally lack those type of players (this isn't still the 90s LOL) but because of tactics/decisions made by the coach or the fact that the opposition have more of those type of players. Nothing wrong with that in itself, there are always tams who will be do certain things better. In international football you need both pace and power AND technique. In fact, in Latin American football circles, i'm sure i've heard Argentina being referred to as the England of that region because they often combine the two.

The approach in this world cup and vs Argentina was a managerial decision taken not based on the lack thereof of technical passers in midfield.
That loss was on Tuchel and his decision/tactics, and not because England 'lack technical passes'

 

[Bishop]

Yet again, you're refusing to acknowledge the players Tuchel decided to leave out of the squad: MGW, Wharton and Palmer are all players with technique and who can play possession games and link play. Ditto Trent, Grealish. Heck, one might even say Maddison.

Those previous losses weren't because England naturally lack those type of players (this isn't still the 90s LOL) but because of tactics/decisions made by the coach or the fact that the opposition have more of those type of players. Nothing wrong with that in itself, there are always tams who will be do certain things better. In international football you need both pace and power AND technique. In fact, in Latin American football circles, i'm sure i've heard Argentina being referred to as the England of that region because they often combine the two.

The approach in this world cup and vs Argentina was a managerial decision taken not based on the lack thereof of technical passers in midfield.
That loss was on Tuchel and his decision/tactics, and not because England 'lack technical passes'

I'm not acknowledging them, I don't see them as the solution to the problem. None of them are aggregate high ball passers into and around the lines. I'm talking players in the mould of Xavi, Iniesta, Rui Costa etc. Players who pass and move between the lines. Men who will orchestrate the play, England don't have that and none of the guys you suggested have that okay style either.

You misunderstanding and harping on something I haven't really said. England don't lack technique but they do lack aggregate possession passers. A better version of Winks if you will, that's why England lack.

Their lack of this player is why it was so easy to compress England back into their box. Even the solutions we suggest are not to win back possession but instead to bypass that press and play for the counter into the spaces left behind, using that pace and power.

Watch the final watch how Spain and Argentina will compete. It will be a battle for dominance of the football. If Argentina get an upper hand Spain's response won't be to try and play for the counter, it will be to wrestle back control of the game. Likewise the same with Argentina if they feel they are being dominated. They won't just play for the counter they will try to control the ball, slow it down, play between the lines. This is something England are never capable of doing.

 

[glorygloryeze?]

I'm not acknowledging them, I don't see them as the solution to the problem. None of them are aggregate high ball passers into and around the lines. I'm talking players in the mould of Xavi, Iniesta, Rui Costa etc. Players who pass and move between the lines. Men who will orchestrate the play, England don't have that and none of the guys you suggested have that okay style either.

You really don't see MGW or Wharton (or Grealish or even Maddison) as those type of players? Ok, so we can be clear how your judging who fits that bill, apart from Messi, who are those type of players for Argentina? Who is that for France?

You misunderstanding and harping on something I haven't really said. England don't lack technique but they do lack aggregate possession passers. A better version of Winks if you will, that's why England lack.

Anderson isn't that? Maddison isn't that? Palmer isn't? Really?

Their lack of this player is why it was so easy to compress England back into their box. Even the solutions we suggest are not to win back possession but instead to bypass that press and play for the counter into the spaces left behind, using that pace and power.

Watch the final watch how Spain and Argentina will compete. It will be a battle for dominance of the football. If Argentina get an upper hand Spain's response won't be to try and play for the counter, it will be to wrestle back control of the game. Likewise the same with Argentina if they feel they are being dominated. They won't just play for the counter they will try to control the ball, slow it down, play between the lines. This is something England are never capable of doing.

We will see whether Argentina try to turn the game into stop/start with sneaky fouls and wind up Spanish players and turn the game into a 'battle' before they start playing., like they did against England and most teams they consider an equal or more of a threat than minnows....one would think by how you describe them as though they approach the game with a "Jogo Bonito" flair and attitude lol.

Argentina can pass and move, sure. But they tried to turn Wednesday's game into a grind and battle first and foremost and only started playing football when they had to. That they were able to without much resistance was more a reflection of Tuchel and his poor approach to handling Argentina rather than any great 'Jogo Bonito"!

 

[Bishop]

You really don't see MGW or Wharton (or Grealish or even Maddison) as those type of players? Ok, so we can be clear how your judging who fits that bill, apart from Messi, who are those type of players for Argentina? Who is that for France?

No I don't see those English players as being from that mould. You're looking at this the wrong way. Wharton for example is a great switch passer and has a great eye for a pass into the space behind the line but I'm talking about the mundane. The short pass guy who passes to one player then moves into space to then receive the return pass before he then does the same to another team mate and it carries on. These are mundane passes, they aren't spectacular but they are the building blocks of a possession side.

Anderson isn't that? Maddison isn't that? Palmer isn't? Really?

All Hollywood passers who play killer balls. That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about meaningful possession, players who keep the ball, dominate the ball and keep their side ticking none of the guys you mention are that and maybe I'm not articulating my thoughts well but I'm surprised you think they are.

We will see whether Argentina try to turn the game into stop/start with sneaky fouls and wind up Spanish players and turn the game into a 'battle' before they start playing., like they did against England and most teams they consider an equal or more of a threat than minnows....one would think by how you describe them as though they approach the game with a "Jogo Bonito" flair and attitude lol.

Argentina can pass and move, sure. But they tried to turn Wednesday's game into a grind and battle first and foremost and only started playing football when they had to. That they were able to without much resistance was more a reflection of Tuchel and his poor approach to handling Argentina rather than any great 'Jogo Bonito"!

You ask who in the Argentina side is of that ilk and the answer is ALL of them. It's baked into their football culturally. I know you're older than me but are you honestly saying you never noticed at 86, 90, 94, 98, 02, 06, 10, 14, 18 and 22 WCs that Argentina tend to play a short passing game to feet with constant movement?!? You don't remember that goal they scored at the 06 WC where every member of the team touched the ball before they scored? This is what they do, it's why they creat the type of footballers they because it's imbedded into their football. I agree with you that they add physicality to that but that's South America for you, the vast majority of those teams are very physical when necessary.

I've been saying to y friends this Final is basically Spain up against Budget Spain. They play the same style albeit with some variation but it's fundamentally the same philosophy at its core.

 

[glorygloryeze?]

No I don't see those English players as being from that mould. You're looking at this the wrong way. Wharton for example is a great switch passer and has a great eye for a pass into the space behind the line but I'm talking about the mundane. The short pass guy who passes to one player then moves into space to then receive the return pass before he then does the same to another team mate and it carries on. These are mundane passes, they aren't spectacular but they are the building blocks of a possession side.

You really think Maddison or Grealish are not those type of players? Even Foden before his recent downturn? Really?

All Hollywood passers who play killer balls. That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about meaningful possession, players who keep the ball, dominate the ball and keep their side ticking none of the guys you mention are that and maybe I'm not articulating my thoughts well but I'm surprised you think they are.

The best midfielders can do BOTH; we don't marvel at Messi because of his sideways passing but his ability to drop a shoulder, go past a man via a dribble and create space in a flash using this skill. If anything a complaint with English football is a lack f this type of dribbler/creative type rather than a lack of a Winks type. I disagree with you that those players who you say stand out as 'Hollywood passers' don't also have the ability to keep and dominate the ball/possession.

You ask who in the Argentina side is of that ilk and the answer is ALL of them. It's baked into their football culturally. I know you're older than me but are you honestly saying you never noticed at 86, 90, 94, 98, 02, 06, 10, 14, 18 and 22 WCs that Argentina tend to play a short passing game to feet with constant movement?!? You don't remember that goal they scored at the 06 WC where every member of the team touched the ball before they scored? This is what they do, it's why they creat the type of footballers they because it's imbedded into their football. I agree with you that they add physicality to that but that's South America for you, the vast majority of those teams are very physical when necessary.

I do remember all those Argentina sides and most were underwhelming because of either lacking the 'Maradona' or 'Messi' creativity-that-is-difficult to stop factor or constantly trying to be minimalist in winning games, i.e. parking the bus after going a goal up instead of killing a team off after going ahead. That 2006 side was probably one of the best sides not to win a WC and imo was miles better than the current side or the one that won the WC in Qatar. If their manager at the time, Pekerman, was more interested in attacking rather than winding a game down or turning it into a ‘battle’ they'd have likely walked that World cup in 2006. Yes, Argentina often play short passes, but don't always concentrate on football. Which is fine, but not Jogo Bonito as i say.

Funnily enough, you haven't answered my question on who is this type of possession player (that English football supposedly lacks) is in the French side.

I've been saying to y friends this Final is basically Spain up against Budget Spain. They play the same style albeit with some variation but it's fundamentally the same philosophy at its core.

If it was Spain vs Brazil, perhaps. But actually, it's more like traditional Spain vs traditional Italy if we're being fair

 

[Bishop]

You really think Maddison or Grealish are not those type of players? Even Foden before his recent downturn? Really?

Nope I don't think they are, or if they are they aren't what I consider good at it. All three also play too far forward to have the impact in the area im suggesting as well.

The best midfielders can do BOTH; we don't marvel at Messi because of his sideways passing but his ability to drop a shoulder, go past a man via a dribble and create space in a flash using this skill. If anything a complaint with English football is a lack f this type of dribbler/creative type rather than a lack of a Winks type. I disagree with you that those players who you say stand out as 'Hollywood passers' don't also have the ability to keep and dominate the ball/possession.

Well I marvel at Messi for his combination of everything but it's that everything that makes him what he is. Watch him play, every pass isn't going for the jugular, sometimes it's a simple short pass, probing until the moment is there and that's what these continuity midfield passers do. They wait for the moment, keeping the play moving and then when the moment is there they strike, but they can just keep possession of necessity England can't. England have to go for the jugular, England doesn't have the patient possession player, it's not in our psyche. G

I do remember all those Argentina sides and most were underwhelming because of either lacking the 'Maradona' or 'Messi' creativity-that-is-difficult to stop factor or constantly trying to be minimalist in winning games, i.e. parking the bus after going a goal up instead of killing a team off after going ahead. That 2006 side was probably one of the best sides not to win a WC and imo was miles better than the current side or the one that won the WC in Qatar. If their manager at the time, Pekerman, was more interested in attacking rather than winding a game down or turning it into a ‘battle’ they'd have likely walked that World cup in 2006. Yes, Argentina often play short passes, but don't always concentrate on football. Which is fine, but not Jogo Bonito as i say.

Funnily enough, you haven't answered my question on who is this type of possession player (that English football supposedly lacks) is in the French side.

Well did say early on that France weren't really one of those teams. They have individualist fast dribble forwards, but that lack of a continuity player is where they failed against Spain at this world cup and the Euros and the last World Cup Final against Argentina as well. If you recall Argentina bopped then off the park before France somehow got 2 goals from pretty much nothing. Again another example of Argentina being a strong possession side. This is not a new thing, but I do agree with you re 2006 epic bottle from Peckerman, they really should have won that world cup, easily the best side at that WC and they hadn't even unleashed a 17/18 year old Messi.

Don't get me wrong I don't think this a particularly special Argentina side. Take Messi out and I don't think they get to the final, but take him out and they would still play the same way because that's the style Argentina always play.

If it was Spain vs Brazil, perhaps. But actually, it's more like traditional Spain vs traditional Italy if we're being fair

Argentina have always been far more intricate with their play than Italy, more brutal as well admittedly but a flowing Argentina is far more attractive than any Italy side I've ever seen and I did rate their Euro winning side.

Modern Brazil are nothing like Spain. They play more like classic Germany these days. Pace power and tech ique but the technique side of things is lacking.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

For me alot of any excitement and gloss is taken off by just the spectacle of the WC, or lack of it in the right areas and the spectacle and circus in others. Ever since it was proven that money was taken to award Russia and Qatar I have lost so much interest in the game, maybe that sound weird, but the way I am programmed there is just a niggle in my head about corruption and the participating nations being taken the p1ss out of. As soon as Trump got involved in the red card rubbish 90% of any interest I had left. Thats also added to the fact that most international football bores me these days, I just can't get into it like Spurs, my heart is 100% etched in Spurs and thats where my full emotion and interest lies now. Weird I know, but I can't shake it

I get that and I feel much the same most of the time. Maybe it’s just being out here and every conversation with anyone we talk to is just re-living the game.

 

[Ace Face]

Messi vs Rodri.

This is why I’ll be watching Sunday.

 

[Bishop]

Messi vs Rodri.

This is why I’ll be watching Sunday.

Messi Vs the Messi regen.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Being Northern Irish helps.

Explains a lot…

 

[Muttley]

Well I marvel at Messi for his combination of everything but it's that everything that makes him what he is. Watch him play, every pass isn't going for the jugular, sometimes it's a simple short pass, probing until the moment is there and that's what these continuity midfield passers do. They wait for the moment, keeping the play moving and then when the moment is there they strike, but they can just keep possession of necessity England can't. England have to go for the jugular, England doesn't have the patient possession player, it's not in our psyche. G

I think the biggest thing we learn about Messi is his ability to "move" into a space to receive the ball. I know you've been building cases for English players who can pass and have the touch but do we really have players that pass and MOVE as naturally as the Argentinians did? We couldn't mark them because they weren't there to be marked. They didn't revel in their pass, they got on with finding a new position to receive the ball back. They were busy, busy after they went a goal down.

I genuinely believe that is becoming a lost art in England.

Where I think you may have a point is that some of the guys left back in the UK had a little more of that versus the ones in the US.

 

[Legohamster]

Yeh TBH I only quickly saw something and its likely shoite, will see if I can find it

Edit

fun fact

Only 3 of the top 10 in the golden boot race are traditional 9s

I think we have enough talented forwards to make it work without a 9/top level 9 with the right coach

 

[thfcsteff]

I think the biggest thing we learn about Messi is his ability to "move" into a space to receive the ball. I know you've been building cases for English players who can pass and have the touch but do we really have players that pass and MOVE as naturally as the Argentinians did? We couldn't mark them because they weren't there to be marked. They didn't revel in their pass, they got on with finding a new position to receive the ball back. They were busy, busy after they went a goal down.

I genuinely believe that is becoming a lost art in England.

Where I think you may have a point is that some of the guys left back in the UK had a little more of that versus the ones in the US.

Agreed.

I think to take the discussion you and @Bishop are having a step further, we do have a few players who can play in that manner, absolutely, they just need to be used and we need a coach who believes enough to play that sort of football. In fact, I'd argue that in this tournament, Mainoo could absolutely have performed that role, and why don't we start placing faith in a player like Alex Scott who is very, very capable of metronoming/cycling in this fashion. Going back to Wed, I again cannot fathom Tuchel's thinking in not replacing Rice with Mainoo. The only thing I can think of is that he himself had only coached and prepared us to do two things; hit teams with speed and power in transitions, sit back and build 'walls' to defend leads. Nothing else. Which is pitiful.

In my mind, if he had brought TAA, MGW, and Cole Palmer, he has several ways to maintain pressure on. Argentina/anyone and find different avenues to unlocking doors.

I am a huge fan of Kane as you know, however would agree that this is the time to wean off him. I'd give Watkins the chance to impress himself into things (with the caveat that I do not think he is elite but he would help a system), I also think Lewis-Skelley is a player we should integrate fast, and I hope Archie gets more games in his preferred position because I think he'd be a great option too.

Sadly, like the Prem, there is a current obssession with size, strength and speed. We have the players to play, Tuchel just doesn't seem especially interested in playing any other way...what is it with Thomas' LOL????? ;-)

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Watch the final watch how Spain and Argentina will compete. It will be a battle for dominance of the football.

Spain are absolutely going to dominate the football. Theres not going to be a battle for that.

Argentina will just try to do what Argentina do. It might work, as past evidence says it does, but they're up against it.

 

[Bishop]

Spain are absolutely going to dominate the football. Theres not going to be a battle for that.

Argentina will just try to do what Argentina do. It might work, as past evidence says it does, but they're up against it.

I expect Spain to dominate the ball but as I said Budget Spain play the same style so they will at least try and fight for the domination. When they realise they can't win that way they will adapt and try something else.

 

[thfcsteff]

In fairness, it should be a superb final. Cagey yet quality, with aggression and elite brickhousery. Two absolute world class difference makers with their own unique skill-sets. I think Spain will win because they are a more even and balanced side, however if Argentina give in to riding their raw-dog emotions then who knows? What I will say is I do not think Spain will make the mistakes defensively we made (particularly and giving Enzo such space for that shot)...

 

[Muttley]

Agreed.

I think to take the discussion you and @Bishop are having a step further, we do have a few players who can play in that manner, absolutely, they just need to be used and we need a coach who believes enough to play that sort of football. In fact, I'd argue that in this tournament, Mainoo could absolutely have performed that role, and why don't we start placing faith in a player like Alex Scott who is very, very capable of metronoming/cycling in this fashion. Going back to Wed, I again cannot fathom Tuchel's thinking in not replacing Rice with Mainoo. The only thing I can think of is that he himself had only coached and prepared us to do two things; hit teams with speed and power in transitions, sit back and build 'walls' to defend leads. Nothing else. Which is pitiful.

In my mind, if he had brought TAA, MGW, and Cole Palmer, he has several ways to maintain pressure on. Argentina/anyone and find different avenues to unlocking doors.

I am a huge fan of Kane as you know, however would agree that this is the time to wean off him. I'd give Watkins the chance to impress himself into things (with the caveat that I do not think he is elite but he would help a system), I also think Lewis-Skelley is a player we should integrate fast, and I hope Archie gets more games in his preferred position because I think he'd be a great option too.

Sadly, like the Prem, there is a current obssession with size, strength and speed. We have the players to play, Tuchel just doesn't seem especially interested in playing any other way...what is it with Thomas' LOL????? ;-)

I think the thing that we all perhaps overlook is the different phases a manager goes through. I remember Hodgson taking the baton very late in 2012 and watching the guys in Donetsk. I remember Southgate going through that big phase of playing the back 5 before he transitioned out of it.

It's perfectly natural that the Tuchel tactics we see now won't be the end game in the way he wants to set England up. I think it's one of those needs-must situations where he had to do what it takes to get us as far as he did. At least in his head. He has still got us close to a WC final and matched Southgate in WC competitions. I'm not sure we would have got that far under Southgate to be fair in this one.

I think Tuchel may say goodbye to a few players and refresh some of this squad. The name you didn't mention is Levi Colwill who I expect to become our mainstay centre half. That's likely to be the Stones transition. With Kane it's more complex. I don't see a natural replacement so we could punt around with Watkins and even a fit, firing Solanke for a while I guess.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Sounds like a perfect Infantino appointee…

Slavko Vincic’s 2020 arrest explained: Why the 2026 World Cup final referee was detained

As social media rumors resurface ahead of the Argentina-Spain clash, here are the facts behind the referee’s brief detention in Bosnia.

en.as.com

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