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Djed Spence

robp135 said:
I think Zlatan got tarred with that brush as well tbh. At least by the British press who used to always bring up his record against English teams. Cantona, Vardy, Stephen Ireland spring to mind. LeSaux was classed as gay because he read the telegraph lol. Becks was hated until the Greece game. Romero for us at the moment as well.
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TBF there were real life reasons why people critiqued those players (bar Le Saux, I never understood the gay stuff being labelled at him). But Cantona jumped in the crowd to skull someone, Vardy made racist slurs against asians in a casino and Stephen Ireland lied that his nan died for a weekend off.

The Becks stuff was tribal from the sending off, people hated him for it, no one could question his attitude though ItMO.

With Djed it seems his attitude is being questioned on not very much evidence TBH
 
Rather than being down to his skin tone, couldn't it simply be that most people that vent on social media are a bit thick?

I think that the BBC were utterly irresponsible in the way they created a false perception of his performance against Congo and that led to stupid people piling on. I suspect the BBC were prepping for us being knocked out and planning to use Tuchel not taking TAA as a big stick to beat him with.

Re his persona, while I see him as a pretty cool character, I can see why some would see him as a bit of a bell. That just comes with the territory.

Also, Djed's a Tottenham player and we're the current favourite team to hate for people that know little about football.

The same happened in the last three tournaments, with countless numpties calling for Kane to be dropped. And let's not forget that the player that's received by far the most online abuse at previous tournaments has been Harry Kane. That very rarely, if ever, gets mentioned by the media.
 
Gazza said:
So essentially, we cannot critique a player in djed Spence as he looks like he switches off in games and doesn’t concentrate at times and to call that out is because people are racially bias?

If anything I’ve only given back handed compliments saying that he could go on to be an elite player if he used his physical attributes and applied himself better in games pertaining to what I’ve just mentioned.

And yes in various outlets he has opinions and people won’t agree with them … or the way he portrays himself people don’t like. It works both ways. I don’t particularly like everything I see of him in social media or outlets but I’ve already discussed previously.

But then to drag a back catalogue of black players into it just doesn’t sit well with me personally. It’s case by case, person by person.
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The reason it's being critiqued is because this questioning tends to follow certain patterns and stereotypes and is often only applied to certain people.

Let's say that yes Djed sometimes switches off and you have picked up on it. VDV also often switches off, drifts from his position, doesn't follow runners etc yet the narrative that he switches off and thus has an attitude of thinking he is better than he is doesn't exist.

I'm not saying you must say these things about VDV especially if you don't even agree but he is guilty of all of those things but the way he is viewed is quite different. Now we could say that's an individual thing but again these things have a pattern, one really isn't very difficult to notice imo.
 
Bishop said:
The reason it's being critiqued is because this questioning tends to follow certain patterns and stereotypes and is often only applied to certain people.

Let's say that yes Djed sometimes switches off and you have picked up on it. VDV also often switches off, drifts from his position, doesn't follow runners etc yet the narrative that he switches off and thus has an attitude of thinking he is better than he is doesn't exist.

I'm not saying you must say these things about VDV especially if you don't even agree but he is guilty of all of those things but the way he is viewed is quite different. Now we could say that's an individual thing but again these things have a pattern, one really isn't very difficult to notice imo.
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Almost every player in the history of football sometimes switches off. I don't see Spence 'switching off' any more than other players, in fact I'd say that he is remarkably switched on compared to many of his peers.
 
Bishop said:
The reason it's being critiqued is because this questioning tends to follow certain patterns and stereotypes and is often only applied to certain people.

Let's say that yes Djed sometimes switches off and you have picked up on it. VDV also often switches off, drifts from his position, doesn't follow runners etc yet the narrative that he switches off and thus has an attitude of thinking he is better than he is doesn't exist.

I'm not saying you must say these things about VDV especially if you don't even agree but he is guilty of all of those things but the way he is viewed is quite different. Now we could say that's an individual thing but again these things have a pattern, one really isn't very difficult to notice imo.
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Yawn. I don’t tend to disagree very much with you when it comes to your posts.

But I feel that you and a few are making it more than it is.

It’s simple, people are opinionated about his playing ability vs his natural talent.

Question SOME of his attitudes shown towards managers, and vice versa.

Question some of his social media.

It’s not because he is black, not because he is Muslim … it’s simple and generally the above.

Can we not make it out to be anything more than that? It’s a strawman argument that I’m bored of actually so won’t comment any further on it.

When it comes to VDV I’ve seen so many posts about his lapses in concentration but probably get some relief because he has done some exceptional work also consistently. He’s proven to be more of an asset than a liability at this time of posting.

It’s really boring and lazy to simply say people are questioning him because of the colour of his skin or because he has chosen to follow some mythical stuff by his own choice.

It’s no wonder people in society are treading on egg shells. Not everything is race related when talking about people that don’t look like you.

Bottom line is that I certainly couldn’t give a rats ass what he looks like , which holy water he drinks or what persona he gives off … but if I chose I will comment as I have. I cannot be any clearer for my critique of him. And again I’ve yet to see anyone else on this forum (All that I’m interested in) saying anything different along the lines of.

So if you find situations in life or on social twitter that suggest any form of racism then by all means discuss it with them, but no one on this forum thus far has held any view that suggests that they don’t like Djed Spence because he is black … I mean is Ledley king less black than Spence? Or is Defoe less black?

Next I’ll be told that we can’t hold views on Bissouma for balloons and turning up late questioning his social media and challenging his professionalism on a forum.

Enjoy the sun pal and the rest of your day. I’m not being rude either your posts usually are usually spot on!
 
Finney Is Back said:
Almost every player in the history of football sometimes switches off. I don't see Spence 'switching off' any more than other players, in fact I'd say that he is remarkably switched on compared to many of his peers.
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What I find bizarre, is despite so many questioning his "attitude" the guy fought his way into reckoning in not only Spurs but England and done so with a good enough attitude off the bench. That part goes without much recognition at all, like I said before, you would think the supporters of the club he plays for would be proud of that, most have spent the WC looking at ways to flog him
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
TBF there were real life reasons why people critiqued those players (bar Le Saux, I never understood the gay stuff being labelled at him). But Cantona jumped in the crowd to skull someone, Vardy made racist slurs against asians in a casino and Stephen Ireland lied that his nan died for a weekend off.

The Becks stuff was tribal from the sending off, people hated him for it, no one could question his attitude though ItMO.

With Djed it seems his attitude is being questioned on not very much evidence TBH
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Sure. There were also real life reasons why people critiqued the black players mentioned by @thfcsteff
 
Was there an exact date or time when the mere suggestion that a thought or notion could potentially be related to a subconscious bias, became worse than actual bigotry itself?

It's so ingrained that people will squirm every which way they can before actually look at the words they're using, whether it's based in reality or could be something else.

Nobody is outright going to come out and say "I'm not really a fan of this player because he's a different colour to me". I remember 10 / 15 years ago an Evertonian cabbie saying "Yea Louis Saha is okay but he's got that typical black man's attitude". Do we think that fella has gone on to educate himself (the taxi driver not Saha....)? Some folks just know how to be a bit more sly whilst holding the same views.

I genuinely find this subject interesting but also the same scraps with wilful misinterpretation and exaggeration aren't fun, but it's summer I guess.

Back to Spence though, I had a funny thought. Djed will have definitely made it if, and when he becomes a player that Conte would actually want to buy to be a part of a title winning team. It's down to him to become a big part of De Zerbi's plans. At least it's not been a total disaster signing for us instead of rejoining Forest when they got promoted. Sliding doors moment I guess, I wonder how things would've panned out.
 
Links to Everton today but I think he’s a better player than that.

If he were to leave, which I categorically hope he doesn’t, then he should go to CL or EL-level team.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
What I find bizarre, is despite so many questioning his "attitude" the guy fought his way into reckoning in not only Spurs but England and done so with a good enough attitude off the bench. That part goes without much recognition at all, like I said before, you would think the supporters of the club he plays for would be proud of that, most have spent the WC looking at ways to flog him
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A big positive about him as a person is that he was the only England player to refuse Partey’s hand
 
Are people still going on about race? fudging hell, we won’t be able to critique any player of colour at this rate. I think Spence can be lazy and his body language seems like he has an attitude but thats because how it comes across not because of the colour of his fudging skin. Its getting absolutely pathetic now. I called Hojberg lazy i suppose i hate whites or Danish people now do i?
 
Would be sad to see him go, but we have to upgrade the squad, and turn promising players into stellar players who deliver. No criticism of Spence, he has the tools and delivers defensively, but he loses some cool in the final third and doesn't get enough goals or assists. It is something he can add to his game no doubt. But that might be at Everton or another club. We will have our price, and if its not met, he should stay. It won't be 25m as Everton suggested, needs to be a lot more.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Would be sad to see him go, but we have to upgrade the squad, and turn promising players into stellar players who deliver. No criticism of Spence, he has the tools and delivers defensively, but he loses some cool in the final third and doesn't get enough goals or assists. It is something he can add to his game no doubt. But that might be at Everton or another club. We will have our price, and if its not met, he should stay. It won't be 25m as Everton suggested, needs to be a lot more.
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See someone who can play LB and RB and has done the hard yards to get into the side and England. Not for me.
 
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