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Sandro Tonali

harr1984 said:
He came back a couple of weeks before that - the West Ham game was his comeback from the bench, then Burnley and Dortmund before the Frankfurt game....
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Yes you're right it was the Dortmund game he came back for in his first start post injury. He scored 4 in 6 from that point under Frank.
 
billyiddo said:
Yes you're right it was the Dortmund game he came back for in his first start post injury. He scored 4 in 6 from that point under Frank.
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I do think he will need upgrading but don't see it as an urgent one looking at the overall picture. With the upgrades in midfield and hopefully another winger too along with some returns from injury and the way RDZ plays, I think we will create more and Solanke will score a decent amount....
 
Finney Is Back said:
Neither are donkeys. Richi has been somewhat injury prone but his goals per 90 at Spurs has been ok, Solanke did well for Ange but was horribly unsuited to Frank’s horseshoe ball, set piece goal dependent system.

I think Solanke will do pretty well in De Zerbi’s high press, early pass through the centre system.
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Solanke scored little under Ange and offered even less goal threat. He barely got into striking positions or got shots off in the Ange era. As mentioned he was barely fit under Frank so I guess you could arguably not really judge that period but the Ange time is fair game.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Neither are donkeys. Richi has been somewhat injury prone but his goals per 90 at Spurs has been ok, Solanke did well for Ange but was horribly unsuited to Frank’s horseshoe ball, set piece goal dependent system.

I think Solanke will do pretty well in De Zerbi’s high press, early pass through the centre system.
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Slight exaggeration on my part. Maybe Ponies wouldve been more apt. Richy yes scored some important goals, but generally he spends far too much time rolling around, plus his ball control and hold up play is pretty bad .
Solanke is a damp squib of a striker. Never seems to be in the right place and his shooting is weak.
For the money we paid they have both been bad signings.
 
Bishop said:
Solanke scored little under Ange and offered even less goal threat. He barely got into striking positions or got shots off in the Ange era. As mentioned he was barely fit under Frank so I guess you could arguably not really judge that period but the Ange time is fair game.
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Solanke never seems to make himself a problem in the box, his movement to the ball seems non existent and stands behinds defenders, Richi for all his faults always seems to get on the end of things, even if he misses.
 
metalgear said:
do we need tonali more than upgrading/reiinforcing the front three?
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Yes and no. Adding just Fernandes means we have to pair him with one of Sarr, Gallagher, Bergvall, Gray or Bentancur. Now of course that is better than our current pairings but it still quite limited, then imagine any games Fernandes misses for whatever reason and then we have a pairing from last season.

This model would mean our midfield is genuinely competitive with the very best allowing us more control or a serious chance in bigger games. On the side of improving the attack, improving the midfield will help the existing lower standard of attacker improve. Earlier passes to players in better positions means that those attacks have a bit more of a chance at success, through balls into space etc.

Yes improving our forward line is imperative but just dropping a striker in won't improve our overall quality as much as getting a high midfield will. This season will be frustrating but it will be because the forwards can take advantage of the platform the midfield will create rather than because the midfielders are bloody useless at actually passing the flipping ball.

I would take a LWF over a striker at this point and I don't rate Richy or Solanke, but a LWF is a more obvious gaping hole. A striker can wait, there is January or even next season but let's fix the foundations first and to give all credit to the club, that is what they have been doing.
 
metalgear said:
do we need tonali more than upgrading/reiinforcing the front three?
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Addendum:

I don't think you appreciate how poor our midfield options have been. We've gotten too used to players who take 3 touches to get control of the ball, players can't play a pass accurately further than 10 yards. Players who can't pass through the lines, players who can't play around a press. It's going to be a night and day difference if we can get both players in.
 
Bishop said:
Addendum:

I don't think you appreciate how poor our midfield options have been. We've gotten too used to players who take 3 touches to get control of the ball, players can't play a pass accurately further than 10 yards. Players who can't pass through the lines, players who can't play around a press. It's going to be a night and day difference if we can get both players in.
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no i actually am fearful that it will take half a season and tonali, fernandez and kudus to show how poor richy is.
with the investments we are making we have to be challenging for Top 6 at least, and its hard to integrate a new player mid way through the season
 
metalgear said:
no i actually am fearful that it will take half a season and tonali, fernandez and kudus to show how poor richy is.
with the investments we are making we have to be challenging for Top 6 at least, and its hard to integrate a new player mid way through the season
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I just don't think its realistic to expect a quality striker and LWF in this window. I think its either or and LW is in a much worse state than up front (even though our striker position is also brick). So if I have to choose, i'm going with LWF and hoping the quality of the midfield along with that LWF and hopefully Kudus back helps cover for the striker inadequacies.
 
Bishop said:
I just don't think its realistic to expect a quality striker and LWF in this window. I think its either or and LW is in a much worse state than up front (even though our striker position is also brick). So if I have to choose, i'm going with LWF and hoping the quality of the midfield along with that LWF and hopefully Kudus back helps cover for the striker inadequacies.
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Lankshear to be Kane to 2014's Adebayor (Richy) and Soldado (Solanke)?
 
metalgear said:
no i actually am fearful that it will take half a season and tonali, fernandez and kudus to show how poor richy is.
with the investments we are making we have to be challenging for Top 6 at least, and its hard to integrate a new player mid way through the season
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You think once we sign Tonali, if we do, then that’s the end of our business. I very much doubt it will be. We’re only at the start of July. This is clearly a big overhaul and once we have signed another midfielder, Tonali or otherwise, then we will move to the attacking positions.
 
Bishop said:
I just don't think its realistic to expect a quality striker and LWF in this window. I think its either or and LW is in a much worse state than up front (even though our striker position is also brick). So if I have to choose, i'm going with LWF and hoping the quality of the midfield along with that LWF and hopefully Kudus back helps cover for the striker inadequacies.
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I was having this discussion the other day, by improving the keeper/defence/Midfield we could be looking at a 15-20 point swing, we've been abysmal in those areas for the past few years.

I would like us to sign new forwards ,but I can just about tolerate another season of the ones we have (plus Maddison/Kudus/Kulu back) if we can get the rest of the team in a better shape.

Plus with an increase in quality in the midfield, we may see a much higher chance creation.
 
Legohamster said:
I was having this discussion the other day, by improving the keeper/defence/Midfield we could be looking at a 15-20 point swing, we've been abysmal in those areas for the past few years.

I would like us to sign new forwards ,but I can just about tolerate another season of the ones we have (plus Maddison/Kudus/Kulu back) if we can get the rest of the team in a better shape.

Plus with an increase in quality in the midfield, we may see a much higher chance creation.
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Exactly my thinking.

A big part of the striker problem is neither of them can create for themselves. They can't shift the ball, or create space with a defender to get shots off.

So both need to be fed, but our chance creation in recent years has been abysmal so we have strikers that need to be spoonfed chances paired with a midfield that doesn't create. It was a horrible combination.

Fernandes along with Tonali will massive push us in the opposite direction, then add a LW of some quality and the poor strikers might just suffice initially due to getting a better quality of chance handed to them.
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