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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

robp135 said:
The National Police Chiefs Council Anti Raciam guidelines state officers must “treat white suspects differently”. It explicitly states that “racial equity does not mean treating everyone equally”.

But we don’t have two tier policing?

www.bbc.com

Police anti-racism commitment 'gives the wrong impression', minister says

The Independent Office for Police Conduct's is reviewing a guidance document from the National Police Chiefs' Council.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...

Maybe don’t leave out the bit that follows it:

"This particular document is a sort of values document, it's quite a short document and I don't think it forms the basis of any training or any police activity," Jones told BBC Radio 4's Today Programme.

So no, we don’t have two tier policing. I can close to guarantee that 95-99.9% of police officers have never read that document.

If anything that document strikes me as a poorly worded attempt at a sort of “we don’t want equality, we want equity” type message. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s accompanied by the picture of three people trying to see over the fence with the boxes to stand on. As it says, it’s not involved in any training anyway.

Police training is pretty poor, but if people honestly think the police in this country are trained to treat white people worse than others, they’re idiots.
 
I'll try and move away from the race element of this issue and just try to put my personal view. Staff in emergency services mostly meet the public in traumatic circumstances where emotions are high and at least one of the parties are feeling not enough is being done for them or they are not being listened to, they are trained for this eventuality but real life is not the same as training. They are all under staffed, under resourced, work long hours and are in some form in physical danger. They are constantly given unrealistic target by people who have lost touch with "the street" who are driven by statistical results and current political climate.
They will make mistakes and they need support to do the job the public expect.
This country is in a financial hole and nobody in any political party will say this, the deeper this hole gets the division in our society will widen.
I fear for my family in the future as I can only see a divided nation with groups in constant conflict over resources.
 
thfcsteff said:
Oh dear.
Really?
What's your experience to make such pronouncements? When my father was getting racially abused on a regular basis, it was just that; he was getting abused. Being 'steered' to a 'place on a racial pyramid'? Bol-locks. He was simply getting called (as I've said erroneously) a p a k i. NOTHING to do with anything other than some thick c unt and the colour of my father's skin.
I would suggest that this is somewhat like shoes; unless you've actually spent a day in them, it's probably best not to assert opinions about the experience of wearing them.
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My Dad is Irish and got a lot of abuse when he was younger and I still saw that as a kid in the 90’s. Called slurs. Pubs with signs on them we know what they would say. Parents who all of a sudden didn’t want their kid be my friend when they heard him speak. One incident where I he was made uncomfortable enough from the football coach who was a big Rangers fan that I had to move teams.

Guess that’s technically Xenephobic and its not on the level your Dad felt that’s for sure. But you are having to use your Dad as the example for a reason. Race was a major issue in the UK and in UK policing in 20+ years ago for your Father. It was not an issue to anywhere near the same degree in 2020, when these policy’s were put into overdrive due to a police murder in another country. Police training that directly resulted in how the Henry Nowak murder was responded to.
 
Rafa87 said:
Maybe don’t leave out the bit that follows it:

"This particular document is a sort of values document, it's quite a short document and I don't think it forms the basis of any training or any police activity," Jones told BBC Radio 4's Today Programme.

So no, we don’t have two tier policing. I can close to guarantee that 95-99.9% of police officers have never read that document.

If anything that document strikes me as a poorly worded attempt at a sort of “we don’t want equality, we want equity” type message. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s accompanied by the picture of three people trying to see over the fence with the boxes to stand on. As it says, it’s not involved in any training anyway.

Police training is pretty poor, but if people honestly think the police in this country are trained to treat white people worse than others, they’re idiots.
Click to expand...

Never read the document. But they go to training that’s based on those documents. And it’s pushed down their throats. Do not be racist. Be anti racist. The worst thing in the world is to be considered racist. The grooming gang scandal was then worst example of this.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I'll try and move away from the race element of this issue and just try to put my personal view. Staff in emergency services mostly meet the public in traumatic circumstances where emotions are high and at least one of the parties are feeling not enough is being done for them or they are not being listened to, they are trained for this eventuality but real life is not the same as training. They are all under staffed, under resourced, work long hours and are in some form in physical danger. They are constantly given unrealistic target by people who have lost touch with "the street" who are driven by statistical results and current political climate.
They will make mistakes and they need support to do the job the public expect.
This country is in a financial hole and nobody in any political party will say this, the deeper this hole gets the division in our society will widen.
I fear for my family in the future as I can only see a divided nation with groups in constant conflict over resources.
Click to expand...

You can watch the bodycam footage. They were pretty calm. This was not a high stress encounter until they figured out Henry had actually been stabbed. The supposed perpetrator was in there mind so heavily intoxicated and was no longer a risk to the supposed victim.
 
robp135 said:
You can watch the bodycam footage. They were pretty calm. This was not a high stress encounter until they figured out Henry had actually been stabbed. The supposed perpetrator was in there mind so heavily intoxicated and was no longer a risk to the supposed victim.
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I've not seen the complete footage, just the small clips on news and don't know if anyone has, I do know everyone sees the same footage differently. It's a big leap to say the mistakes made are because that is policing policy rather than human failings.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Probably a great time to.post this as a reminder, as relevant today as always has been

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50 years on from that clip and the argument pedalled by the far-right is still that our town and cities are apparently being "swamped" and that "our way of life will disappear"...and yet, in half a century, despite the "swamping", that hasn't happened.

Weird, eh?
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I've not seen the complete footage, just the small clips on news and don't know if anyone has, I do know everyone sees the same footage differently. It's a big leap to say the mistakes made are because that is policing policy rather than human failings.
Click to expand...
Exactly this, its impossible currently to know what the core reason was for their actions, on any side, it could well be policy, or it could well be terrible policing because of false reporting, well I mean its all terrible policing, but you get my point.

It may well have been about pressure on race training, but it can't be said with any certainty, definitely not to the certainty some are clearly peddling.
 
robp135 said:
Never read the document. But they go to training that’s based on those documents. And it’s pushed down their throats. Do not be racist. Be anti racist. The worst thing in the world is to be considered racist. The grooming gang scandal was then worst example of this.
Click to expand...

Except they don’t, because I’ve had the training and that isn’t the case.

You also earlier posted insinuating that we DO live in a society with two tier policing, based on the document… which you haven’t read.
 
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