parklane1
Teddy Sheringham
Na il on the head. Any club that changes managers/styles as often as we do over the last few years is always making it hard for themselves.
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Vinai Venkatesham - CEO
- Thread starter mephitis
- Start date
Finney Is Back
Jimmy Cantrell
Well that depends on the wages that another club offers. I'm sure we'll lift our wage ceiling (it seems we already have) but there will still be other clubs out there with a bigger budget than us which means we can still get gazumped. I do hope to see us being able to compete better for the really good players but we might have to wait until we're back in the Champions League before we can attract some of those sorts of players as it's quite a hard sell to a top player to come to Spurs right now.
What I do hope to see though is less of us faffing about and constantly trying to change the parameters of the deal. Also less of players the manager wants suddenly being worth a lot more money to us on the last day of the transfer window than they were on day one of the window.
We look like we can pass the ball and retain possession, something we never did under Frank, notice how the forward passing stat has disappeared from the media coverage of Spurs? Bentancur & Paulhinha (who were supposedly our problem) are individually making more forward passes in a single game than Frank's team managed in 10 games.
Whoever is to blame, the guy is one of the worst decisions made at Spurs, compounded by not doing a Nuno with him (should have been gone in October)
Finney Is Back
Jimmy Cantrell
Yes, it was plain to see that the players weren't allowed to make forward passes through the centre under Frank. I think the only exception was Romero.
I think the lure of the league, the stadium, the training ground, the history and the manager might be enough to offset any European football worries. To be part of our rebuild and reinvention is a hell of a project to sell to players, and honestly is how we have got some of the top talent we have in the last 25 years.
Bishop
Les Ferdinand
This is nonsense Frank had exactly the same profile as Poch and Nuno as all three were considered to be up and coming coachs who had done well at lower profile clubs whilst maximising the resources available to them.
Yiddo
Nayim
I trust Levy 10000% more than i trust this guy.
Nuno and Frank were safe pragmatic hires, no one saw anything they were doing as tactically interesting (look at what people say about RDZ as example), Poch (second coming of Bielsa) and AVB (second coming of Jose) are very different profiles from first two mate
Bedfordspurs
Bert Smith
The worst person I’ve ever seen managing the team, and we have and some shockers
Tactically inept (to non existent)
Motivationally up there with David Brent
I've explained why I think this (know it's not a post directed to me but no doubt I'm in your thinking re Levy diehards)
Lewis's stepped in > appointed Charrington > internal review > RC and other team-Levy staff leaves > Vinai comes in > Vinai front & center of all the presentation of Thomas Frank talking up the process of his appointment > Levy is shuffled off once season is underway > Vinai sticks with manager despite long run of poor form
I think it's a fairly uncomplicated take on that run of events that the Lewis's wanted Levy gone and the summer was essentially a handover process from the old guy to the new guy (Levy to Vinai) and that if that was the plan that they would want their guy making the big calls vs the man they are moving on.
I mean alternative to me takes more suspension of belief/raises more concerns...
Internal review is conducted but they don't pin point Levy as a problem so allow him to carry on making the biggest decisions then after one summer window they pull a 180 and realise he's the problem? I mean how thorough was the review in that case and why should we believe that any plans made since are any more well thought through? If Vinai wasn't the main man in waiting upon appointment what makes him the man to do the job now?
The first scenario is surely the preferable reality, no? They conducted their review and moved quickly to make the changes at the top level that they wanted to
Bishop
Les Ferdinand
Something I do find interesting about this discussion is how you are more focused on an attempt to fix something that was already broken and in that respect I think you are right about Levy, he held coaches to a very high and imo unrealistic and unattainable standard a standard that he himself would have failed.
Whereas I look more into the actual causes of the issue. Firing Frank isn't a real solution if we don't understand why he was hired in the first place and why upon hiring him we failed to provide the support needed (as has been the case with pretty much every manager in under ENIC) to build the foundations of success. The same thing happened with Ange, as much as he was an ideologue, if you provided him with the quality of player his system required he would have ultimately done better and might still be in the job now.
Firefighting after the effect is an inefficient way to run any organisation, you get the structure right in the first place (Levy never did) and then everything else falls neatly into place.
Bishop
Les Ferdinand
I absolutely believe ENIC capable of the second scenario.
We have to move forward (not that we as fans ever really have a choice).
My point of looking back is, past behaviour is some indication of future outcome, which is why most people think moving on from Levy is a good idea, because he hit a ceiling (not rehashing) regardless of if you think the tenure was more bad or good.
You can't review this season and not ask why we didn't take action sooner, because things will go wrong in the future (regardless of how right you get the structure), in my opinion the leadership vacuum was obvious.
Hopefully they have had that conversation, they certainly are trying the PR campaign, in the end, results will tell.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Luka Modric
Director of football is a position I've never been able to really understand. Are they the person who decides which style of game we play then select a manager who can meet that brief and identify and supplies them with the players and technical support to produce that.
If that is the case then Lange has failed, we don't have any style or identity on the field, which is due to selection of managers with different tactic, poor recruitment of senior players and medical staff.
My assumption are probably wrong and it's some collective group which sets the goals and they've got it wrong.
I just don't feel anyone in senior management are Spurs people, they may be football people but don't represent the heart and soul of the club.
There's not a simple answer to our problems and a radical change is needed in transfer strategy. We don't need potential or squad players we need players who can hit the ground running in the first team.
That not going to be easy, the only thing we can offer to top players is money, they will not be queuing up to join a club that finish 17th 2 years in a row. Every selling club will know we are desperate. I never bought into Levy is too tight story and I think we'll see in the summer how tough it will be to get the right players, at best I'd hope for 2.
If that is the case then Lange has failed, we don't have any style or identity on the field, which is due to selection of managers with different tactic, poor recruitment of senior players and medical staff.
My assumption are probably wrong and it's some collective group which sets the goals and they've got it wrong.
I just don't feel anyone in senior management are Spurs people, they may be football people but don't represent the heart and soul of the club.
There's not a simple answer to our problems and a radical change is needed in transfer strategy. We don't need potential or squad players we need players who can hit the ground running in the first team.
That not going to be easy, the only thing we can offer to top players is money, they will not be queuing up to join a club that finish 17th 2 years in a row. Every selling club will know we are desperate. I never bought into Levy is too tight story and I think we'll see in the summer how tough it will be to get the right players, at best I'd hope for 2.
DeanoAustin
Jack Jull
Vinai, by his own words, was involved in the decision making process. It wasn’t solely a Daniel Levy appointment. Did Levy have a hand in it? Without doubt but so too did Vinai and Lange by their own admission. So he should be accountable for that decision especially when he’s now citing criteria for being manager of Tottenham that couldn’t have been high up on the list when the decision was made on Frank.
On the football, Frank’s Brentford side in the Premier League were not a good watch. Lots of fans on here pointed that out when he was talked about. The posts are there if you go and look for them. If it’s so important to Vinai now and anyone who watched football could see Frank’s Brentford were not a good watch in the Premier League, how did he get appointed?
Those are fair questions for the CEO of the club.
Him laying the blame for our problems at Levy’s door is not taking responsibility for his actions. Him now saying style of football is important for a manager of Tottenham says to me that he’ll say whatever suits in a given moment. It undermines his credibility for me and he hadn’t got a lot of it before that interview.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
John Lacy
I actually think we supported Frank fine. We got him Palinha, supposedly perfect for his system. We got him RKM even though we already had Solanke and Richy because we knew Solanke was out and we wanted proper depth. We had such a full squad we couldn’t register Tel for the CL. He was able to rotate players plenty at the start of the season before injuries bit again.
But I agree with the general point, which goes back to what people have said about the interviews today. No one has sufficiently explained why Frank was hired and persisted with. And without understanding that it’s hard to know what the decision making process really is and whether it’s working well now.
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
Of course he does. That's who he was. At that moment he was still The Leader. He had no idea what was coming. The Lewis Family and Venkatesham did.
First of all, and to be very clear because I am not going to be mischaractarized here, I am in no way a 'Levy diehard'. But ask yourself honestly; do you think the Lewis family and Venkatesham genuinely left the decision to Levy without a bill of sale? They sold it hard, with Lange (his DoF) at the helm. Venkatesham would've gone with Lange's 'vision'. I would suggest that Levy was no more than a figurehead at that point who made the fatal error of thinking he was irreplaceable/untouchable and NOT seeing the wood for the trees . I still find it amazing that he did not 'see' Venkatesham coming. Breathtaking in fact.
Come on.
Our club thought we could be a 'big' version of Brentford, Bournemout and Brighton, which is fundamentally wrong because our bones and roots are different to those clubs.
Despite the roars of praise for his pragmatism and ability to adapt, Frank knew one route. Last Sunday I saw several progressive automations which Kudus, Odobert and Solanke been fit, would very likely have yielded high-scoring chances. It happened against Brighton too. And Leeds. Without those players. And without a couple of others. 'Be patient' was what I heard. Patient for what? A better version of Frankball? Not worth the wait for me, it never was. The truth is he should've done much much better with what he had, yet he shrunk into his shell and increasingly told us how troubled and brick we were.
Look, if you believe what you wrote, fair play and good for you.
I do not. I think he was the 'wrong trousers Gromit'. In many senses I feel sorry for him as he didn't choose himself for the job, he was chosen, and of course he'd have thought he could do it.
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
My sense is that he is a snake who will survive this round. IMO he is in the last chance saloon. Honestly, he should be praying to DeZerbi every single day. I could, of course, be wrong. Time will tell eh?!
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thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
Do you think he was allowing his eyes to determine transfer decisions more than his data-centric work? I do not. Who has said Lange was 'making all the decisions' at the club? He was absolutely driving the football direction from his role. Of course his take on the role dovetailed with what his bosses wanted to hear ('we can be a bigger Brentford'). In the end he proved to be a charlatan. He drove a model, was part of the hiring committe which hired Postecoglu, our entire football structure through to the kids coached in the style Postecoglu bought to the club, mistakes were made in the physiological/rehab/med dept, we lost players to injuries, struggled terribly with half a squad out, and then decided to oust the manager who had just won a trophy (changed our mentality by getting us across the line) and horrifically decided to replace him with the OPPOSITE of what he'd led the charge bedding in for two seasons at the club (essentially giving up on the whole model). That is not doing your job very well, and if you're going to tell me that no-one could tell Levy what to do, my answer would be that he should've quit in that case (much like Paratici did when he realised we were not sacking Frank or Lange, so he said 'ciao boys' and off he went.
Yes, people want a spacegoat AND he is absolutely culpable for doing an overall poor job, one which bvery nearly contributed tous being in the championship.
Finally, you pondered what his job description is. Here's a piece from his appt.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4952373/2023/10/12/johan-lange-tottenham-technical-director/
This from 2025
https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...atici-johan-lange-co-sporting-directors-model
I think it is hard not to see how Thomas Frank and Johann Lange are intertwined, and have been for a long, long time.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
John Lacy
Yeah, on your last point, De Zerbi has fundamentally put to bed the idea that the style of play that we saw at the start of the season was down to the players not being good enough. It took him his until his second game to demonstrate how much improvement could be made, how much control we could demonstrate, and how much initiative we can take with the ball. And he did that with a squad far weaker than the one available at the start of the season.
The thing I don’t really understand about Frank, is that I think he genuinely thought that part of building the team was to really prove they could play defensively first, before ‘adding layers’. This ties in with the recent story that has come out of Spence and Dier talking after the Monaco game, Spence being frustrated with the performance, and Lange coming by and saying ‘finally! More like that hey!’ To Lange, he had just seen what he probably classed as a solid defensive performance, and a great building block on the way to whatever layers we would ultimately add. Meanwhile Spence saw it as being completely hamstrung by the style of play and knowing he could do better.
If I’m right in what I’m saying about Frank, this is the biggest thing that deserves criticism for me, because it’s the thing that destroys the confidence of the squad. They’re on a high after winning a trophy, and for two years they were told to be brave. Frank could have been flexible, he could have played to the level of his players. Instead it feels like he made a conscious decision to restrict their capacity, because of his belief that building a team starts from proving they can be solid, because that’s what worked at Brentford. And I don’t think I’m mis assuming something here because he frequently spoke of ‘adding layers’ as if it was something we should have to wait for. De Zerbi will add layers too next season I’m sure, but it took him two games to show that we could be a team that seized the initiative again.