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ENIC

Finney Is Back said:
I don't tend to judge the capability of people by how they look. I suggest you try to do the same as you'll be ruling out lots of people for some silly inherent bias.

I also suggest that you give CEO's a bit more time than 6 months before you judge how they can turn around a failing business (or sports club in this example).
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Chinless is a description of character, not physical appearance. Id imagine it has boxing origins
 
Finney Is Back said:
Did you watch the amazon documentary? If so did you really take that away from it?
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Do you mean the amazon documentary from 2019/2020? That Poch didn't want and that Mourinho turned into his show? That is like asking if I think the side which featured in Hunter Davis' epicd The Glory Game reflect current swuad attitudes towards the game and life. In short, I took nothing away from that which pertains to this...

...however, now you mention it ( ;) ), think about how much Levy made sure he was in the frames/edits/canteen on a regular basis. Trust me (albeit I suspect you might well know) his ousting sent a seismic shock through the club and it absolutely would've affected operations around the players which in turn would've affected them.
 
I know we hear it all the time, but does anyone else feel like this sounds a little different?

The whole “we know actions speak louder than words” line just feels different somehow. Then you’ve got all these statements coming out, Gold mentioning that Lang is on very thin ice, the investigation into the pitch bounce, and all the injuries being looked at.

It genuinely feels like they’re in last chance saloon mode and know they have to go big this summer if they want to earn back some of the respect they’ve lost.

Maybe I’m just reading too much into the usual false promises, but I can’t help feeling this time might actually be different. Famous last words, I know.
 
=
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Yeah I remember Sissoko being played on the right initially and being bad, before actually becoming a really solid central midfield option. That is the weird thing though - 30m was a lot at the time and Levy was willing to do that. It doesn’t really make much sense.

Again I am realising a lot of my assumptions about people in power having more information to make good decisions in theory doesn’t always hold true. I assumed that Levy thought Sissoko was perhaps a good long term investment, with maybe versatility and a fitness record that meant we could get a lot out of him. But knowing what we now know, in terms of how Levy made decisions because he was worried about public backlash and wanting to be seen to be doing something, there is every chance he panicked, thought Poch needed someone, anyone, and pushed the deal through. Which is insane to me. But could very well be what happened.

I heard the Libero podcast recommend Ferran Soriano’s book ‘the ball doesn’t go in by chance’ and spent some time reading it last night. It is a great book on the challenges and strategies for running a successful football club. And you can see what Soriano took from Barca to Emirates Marketing Project. The point isn’t that every club should do exactly what they did, but there are some core principles that successful clubs follow. And I have to say it was striking how when reading that book and comparing it to Levy’s Spurs…how few of those things we actually did. It is no wonder we stagnated. After 2019 we basically did none of the good things, and all of the mistakes the book calls out.
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It was arse-covering, and not very well done. I remember it was an 'appeasement' for the failure of paying Mane the wages he wanted (same issue with Winaldjum, Mitchell then got on his bike, etc). It was sort of 'here, we got this for you' rather than 'is this what you wanted'?Another of Poch's great complaints was timing. He repeatedly said he wanted players for pre-season/much of as possible, and that rarely happened. Indeed, if it happened with one player, it seems as though the feeling was 'we've done it' rather than 'let's keep this brick rolling and get more done quickly'. Right up til the end his transfer dealings were most un-ideal. The Eze situation for example (let's be clear, the only reason the goons bought him was because Havaertz got injured - they didn't really want him before that- we lost a prime target in a one-horse race because we dithered and dithered). He was the greatest business chairman the Premier League has ever seen in one sense. He was a poor football operations chairman because he could never separate his business brain from the football side. I do think, on balance, throwing him 100% under any bus is wholly wrong. As has been said by several already,the Lewis Family own the club and he was their chief cook and bottlewasher, so much of everything is shared with them whichever way you slice it. Put it this way, I doubt the Lewis family were upset with him as their investment soared.
 
Bishop said:
You can think he was the best chairman he lost my faith in 2011. Our standards and expectations are clearer different. You're willing to accept failure and will make excuses for it, whereas I do not.

But my point was unless this a cult of personality why are people asking for the new guys to be sacked 8 months in when they've given Levy at the minimum 6 years of consistent and protracted failure and would probably still have him here right now.

Again where is the consistency?
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First of all, you threw the 'h' word around in a previous post. I am not sure what hypocrisy you're calling out?

Secondly, emotions have been very, very high the last 6 months and those two have been in the crosshairs.
With the storm having calmed, even vociferous critics such as myself concede that Venkatesham will remain as there is already toommuch being bedded in. Lange? He was (if title is accurate) the architect of our direction as a football club on the pitch since 2023, and I am unsatisfied with quite a lot of it, from tone to communication to strategy-melding and execution. I am not 'anti-data' but that cannot be the premier driver. I admire Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton but we are not those clubs, and trying to turn us into them is (IMO) a sackable offense. I concede that he could well operate as a talent spotter/data guy once more, but he needs to be removed as the DoF. You can call that a 'cult of personality' if you like, I would argue that a) he doesn't have a strong enough one to be in such an important position and b) this club needs more than a proficient data manager in that position.

Probably the biggest issue I have with these two is how fast Levy was booted/the changes initiated and the timing of them. It was never going to easy or simply, but a 'ramp off' strategy was vital after 25 years of virtually mono-run club (Levy's attention to detail was insane - I am not the only one here who could share anecdotes I'm sure). How Venkatesham did not see that is beyond me. He said he only realised the issues a few months after his appointment, which still placed him well within bounds to tell the Lewis Family that a sharp shove off the ship was unwise. Instead they took the view that it was going to be painful and ugly, and as such hey-ho, no time like the present. We nearly paid for this with relegation.

My one hope right now is that the power De Zerbi holds will be enough to flip the football fortunes because they would not dare cross him. He has more power than any other manager in our modern history (the power I hoped Poch would have) and they know they have to back him.
 
Yiddo said:
I know we hear it all the time, but does anyone else feel like this sounds a little different?

The whole “we know actions speak louder than words” line just feels different somehow. Then you’ve got all these statements coming out, Gold mentioning that Lang is on very thin ice, the investigation into the pitch bounce, and all the injuries being looked at.

It genuinely feels like they’re in last chance saloon mode and know they have to go big this summer if they want to earn back some of the respect they’ve lost.

Maybe I’m just reading too much into the usual false promises, but I can’t help feeling this time might actually be different. Famous last words, I know.
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Far be it from me to be pessimistic, but it’s also ST renewal time
 
Finney Is Back said:
Indeed. He did some great stuff, he then badly mucked things up. See my comparison to Blackberry a few pages ago.... Would you want a Blackberry now?
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I think a better comparison for Levy is that he was always a world class toaster oven, and possibly thought that this extraordinary ability meant he could also create the greatest roast dinner/souffles/pies/casseroles as well if people just applied 'toaster oven logic' to their recipes. When we all know a Miele or such is a tool of beauty all to itself, and that you do not cook full dinners in toaster ovens however marvelous they are!

Is this metaphor a bit too weird????? :tearsofjoy:
 

Finney Is Back said:
I don't tend to judge the capability of people by how they look. I suggest you try to do the same as you'll be ruling out lots of people for some silly inherent bias.

I also suggest that you give CEO's a bit more time than 6 months before you judge how they can turn around a failing business (or sports club in this example).
Click to expand...

FInney I rate you as a poster. And respect what you have achieved in life and the connections with top businesses that you have and exposure to top people in those businesses.

Now… in your experience. Do you think when things were going to shìt with Frank. The best course of action was to implement a coffee and cake table and encourage staff to write positive affirmations on a white board for the players to see?

Because that’s what you man Vinai implemented.

That to me stinks of B level HR flimflam and despiration.
 
DTA said:
FInney I rate you as a poster. And respect what you have achieved in life and the connections with top businesses that you have and exposure to top people in those businesses.

Now… in your experience. Do you think when things were going to shìt with Frank. The best course of action was to implement a coffee and cake table and encourage staff to write positive affirmations on a white board for the players to see?

Because that’s what you man Vinai implemented.

That to me stinks of B level HR flimflam and despiration.
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When this sort of Brentian detail gets out, I cannot help think someone there doesn't like him...because there's literally no reason whatsoever for anyone to know about that sort of nonsense LOL!
 
Yiddo said:
I know we hear it all the time, but does anyone else feel like this sounds a little different?

The whole “we know actions speak louder than words” line just feels different somehow. Then you’ve got all these statements coming out, Gold mentioning that Lang is on very thin ice, the investigation into the pitch bounce, and all the injuries being looked at.

It genuinely feels like they’re in last chance saloon mode and know they have to go big this summer if they want to earn back some of the respect they’ve lost.

Maybe I’m just reading too much into the usual false promises, but I can’t help feeling this time might actually be different. Famous last words, I know.
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The answer is we will see

- RDZ won't suffer fools or a rug pull, especially with the amount of credit in bank he now has.
- If we spend same 150M in the window, we know nothings changed
- If Lange is still here with no real top level DoF, nothing has been learned.
- If some even token change isn't made re medical and sports science, same applies.
- A marque signing is needed

There is a path for them to do (not just say), it includes significant investment (anything less than 250M for me is a tinkle take window, we have so much catching up to do), changes and real first team players (Savino/Robertson/Sensei can be part, but they are not the answer)

The tough part for them is their flimflam has a date, lets see where we are at start of season, we will know if it's miraculously different.
 
thfcsteff said:
First of all, you threw the 'h' word around in a previous post. I am not sure what hypocrisy you're calling out?
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5-10!years of ever decreasing performance from the leadership excused consistently. I'm sure you remember the almost daily discussions about Levy's aptitude. Yet now 8 months into Vinai's solo run people are asking for him to be sacked and are criticising his work. Seems a bit rich to me when you consider that he has to first turn around a sinking ship and that the same people who have no patience for Vinai are typically the same people who gave Levy ever more grace. .

If the defence of Levy is that running the club in it's context is difficult given the standing of our contemporise, why is that argument now no longer relevant to Vinai? If time is the barometer of success or ability then why is Vinai not being afforded even a modicum of the time Levy was granted by the fans? That is hypocritical behaviour, I like consistency but I see none of it in the pro Levy brigades Vinai criticism.
thfcsteff said:
Secondly, emotions have been very, very high the last 6 months and those two have been in the crosshairs.
With the storm having calmed, even vociferous critics such as myself concede that Venkatesham will remain as there is already toommuch being bedded in. Lange? He was (if title is accurate) the architect of our direction as a football club on the pitch since 2023, and I am unsatisfied with quite a lot of it, from tone to communication to strategy-melding and execution. I am not 'anti-data' but that cannot be the premier driver. I admire Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton but we are not those clubs, and trying to turn us into them is (IMO) a sackable offense. I concede that he could well operate as a talent spotter/data guy once more, but he needs to be removed as the DoF. You can call that a 'cult of personality' if you like, I would argue that a) he doesn't have a strong enough one to be in such an important position and b) this club needs more than a proficient data manager in that position.

Probably the biggest issue I have with these two is how fast Levy was booted/the changes initiated and the timing of them. It was never going to easy or simply, but a 'ramp off' strategy was vital after 25 years of virtually mono-run club (Levy's attention to detail was insane - I am not the only one here who could share anecdotes I'm sure). How Venkatesham did not see that is beyond me. He said he only realised the issues a few months after his appointment, which still placed him well within bounds to tell the Lewis Family that a sharp shove off the ship was unwise. Instead they took the view that it was going to be painful and ugly, and as such hey-ho, no time like the present. We nearly paid for this with relegation.

My one hope right now is that the power De Zerbi holds will be enough to flip the football fortunes because they would not dare cross him. He has more power than any other manager in our modern history (the power I hoped Poch would have) and they know they have to back him.
Click to expand...
 
Bishop said:
5-10!years of ever decreasing performance from the leadership excused consistently. I'm sure you remember the almost daily discussions about Levy's aptitude. Yet now 8 months into Vinai's solo run people are asking for him to be sacked and are criticising his work. Seems a bit rich to me when you consider that he has to first turn around a sinking ship and that the same people who have no patience for Vinai are typically the same people who gave Levy ever more grace. .

If the defence of Levy is that running the club in it's context is difficult given the standing of our contemporise, why is that argument now no longer relevant to Vinai? If time is the barometer of success or ability then why is Vinai not being afforded even a modicum of the time Levy was granted by the fans? That is hypocritical behaviour, I like consistency but I see none of it in the pro Levy brigades Vinai criticism.
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I have always thought that in order to properly evaluate Levy's era, it is imperative that it be split into two distinct areas. Non-football development of the club, and football development of the club.
My single-biggest blast of criticism towards Levy came during the Poch era when he genuinely did not realize what an incredible opportunity/moment in time he had, simply because it arrived fastet than anyone thought. That we were unable to take advantage of that, that he was unable to see that Poch deserved a second rebuild in 2019/20, and that he went with Mourinho knowing that he would serve him up a Gedson Fernandes as opposed to the calibre of player Mourinho needs to make anything happen are mistakes which have led us to where we are.
 
thfcsteff said:
I have always thought that in order to properly evaluate Levy's era, it is imperative that it be split into two distinct areas. Non-football development of the club, and football development of the club.
My single-biggest blast of criticism towards Levy came during the Poch era when he genuinely did not realize what an incredible opportunity/moment in time he had, simply because it arrived fastet than anyone thought. That we were unable to take advantage of that, that he was unable to see that Poch deserved a second rebuild in 2019/20, and that he went with Mourinho knowing that he would serve him up a Gedson Fernandes as opposed to the calibre of player Mourinho needs to make anything happen are mistakes which have led us to where we are.
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You mention Poch’s golden period arriving faster than anyone thought. Do you think had it arrived in a slower time that Levy would have handled it any differently? I don’t think he would have.

He was put there by ENIC. An investment company that buys businesses, raising their value so they can sell for profit when they see fit. He fulfilled what he was put there to do
 
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