ENIC

[MartyFunkhouser]

I guess what I’m trying to say is he shouldn’t get immunity from the last 6-7 years because he was instrumental in lifting the club from a perennial mid table outfit to serious contenders. Even Wenger had to step down at Arsenal eventually after years of decline in spite of winning 3 league titles and managing difficult financial waters when they moved from Highbury.

No one ever does that TBF, I would argue that to the contrary you show balance then people on here made comments about him being blindly worshipped or the like.

Everyone knows he had faults, massive ones in part, but the net benefit he made the club was also significant, thats not a pass, just a fact..

The issue of cutting of the head in someone like Levy role is you create a vacuum. Jan was proof for me, no decision makers clear, reports of infighting and different opinions slowing any decision, you can't run a PL football club like that either because rot sets in, which seems the exact case with timing of Frank and Tudor

The statement today makes a massive stroke to allude to historic mistakes as none of them impacted the decision making or lack of it this season, thats on him and his colleagues.

 

[Jurgen the German]

No one ever does that TBF, I would argue that to the contrary you show balance then people on here made comments about him being blindly worshipped or the like.

Everyone knows he had faults, massive ones in part, but the net benefit he made the club was also significant, thats not a pass, just a fact..

The issue of cutting of the head in someone like Levy role is you create a vacuum. Jan was proof for me, no decision makers clear, reports of infighting and different opinions slowing any decision, you can't run a PL football club like that either because rot sets in, which seems the exact case with timing of Frank and Tudor

The statement today makes a massive stroke to allude to historic mistakes as none of them impacted the decision making or lack of it this season, thats on him and his colleagues.

But despite all of that, people have consistently called for him to come back. The last 6–7 years of decline on the pitch don’t seem to have deterred them at all. How much further would Spurs have had to fall before people accepted that change was necessary?

And just because the current hierarchy have been useless doesn’t automatically mean getting rid of Levy was the wrong decision. Two things can be true at once: the people who replaced him can be failing, while Levy himself was still a major part of the long-term decline.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

But despite all of that, people have consistently called for him to come back. The last 6–7 years of decline on the pitch don’t seem to have deterred them at all. How much further would Spurs have had to fall before people accepted that change was necessary?

And just because the current hierarchy have been useless doesn’t automatically mean getting rid of Levy was the wrong decision. Two things can be true at once: the people who replaced him can be failing, while Levy himself was still a major part of the long-term decline.

Getting rid with no plan was, which was my point.

2 people off the top of my head making the claim for him to come back isnt really constant or indicative of the general view

 

[elltrev]

I think the idea that Levy’s failings on the football side are “vastly overstated” only works if you completely separate him from the decisions made over the last 6–7 years — which makes no sense when he’s been the constant throughout all of it.

Since Poch left in 2019, we have gone from Champions League finalists and regular top-four finishers into a club that has drifted further away from competing every single season. That decline hasn’t happened by accident.

Look at the managerial appointments alone. Mourinho, Nuno, Conte, then Ange — all completely different profiles with completely different football philosophies. Every time a manager came in, the squad had to be reshaped again, only for the project to be abandoned within 18 months. That points to a lack of structure and leadership above the manager.

Recruitment has been similarly inconsistent. For every good signing, there have been multiple expensive misses or short-term panic buys. We constantly looked like a club reacting to problems instead of following a long-term football plan.

And while people rightly praise the stadium and commercial growth, that’s only part of running a football club. On the pitch, Spurs have regressed badly since 2019. The football has often been poor, the squad planning has been chaotic, and the club has burned through managers while falling further behind rivals.

Nobody is saying Levy is responsible for every single bad result or transfer. But when the same person oversees the entire period of decline, from the end of the Poch era to now, it’s fair to question his football leadership. At some point the accountability has to reach the top.

I guess what I’m trying to say is he shouldn’t get immunity from the last 6-7 years because he was instrumental in lifting the club from a perennial mid table outfit to serious contenders. Even Wenger had to step down at Arsenal eventually after years of decline in spite of winning 3 league titles and managing difficult financial waters when they moved from Highbury.

I don’t think ‘drifting further away from competing every year’ is true.

Conte’s first season had us back up in 4th, then Ange’s first had us back up in 5th, and his second had us win the Europa with an injury ravaged squad. And don’t forget we were third in the league with a quarter of this season gone.

So I think this narrative of gradual decline since 2019 isn’t true. It was ups and downs, then a freak season last season, followed by a toxic atmosphere and more injuries dragging us down this season.

I truly think next season we will be right back up around the top 6 with just a few decent signings and better luck with injuries.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don’t think ‘drifting further away from competing every year’ is true.

Conte’s first season had us back up in 4th, then Ange’s first had us back up in 5th, and his second had us win the Europa with an injury ravaged squad. And don’t forget we were third in the league with a quarter of this season gone.

So I think this narrative of gradual decline since 2019 isn’t true. It was ups and downs, then a freak season last season, followed by a toxic atmosphere and more injuries dragging us down this season.

And a EC win after everyone said the owner would be judged on cups for years on here.

 

[Sandman]

yeah its funny how people judge that. Last season and this we was in the top 5 going into December then started to pile up one injury after another and low and behold our performances start to drop. When liverpool are without VVD and their best forwards they struggled. City whitout Rodri. Scum without Saliba and Saka. Yet some how the fact we are missing 7-8 probable starters does not come into thought.

This is what we need to fix. One season was unlucky. Two and something is going on. We will already start the season without Simons.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don’t think ‘drifting further away from competing every year’ is true.

Conte’s first season had us back up in 4th, then Ange’s first had us back up in 5th, and his second had us win the Europa with an injury ravaged squad. And don’t forget we were third in the league with a quarter of this season gone.

So I think this narrative of gradual decline since 2019 isn’t true. It was ups and downs, then a freak season last season, followed by a toxic atmosphere and more injuries dragging us down this season.

I truly think next season we will be right back up around the top 6 with just a few decent signings and better luck with injuries.

The overall trajectory has clearly been downward, even allowing for the occasional top-four finish along the way. Since 2019, we have gone from genuine title contenders, to simply fighting for the top four, to missing out on European qualification through the league in three separate seasons. Culminating in a near relegation and two consecutive 17th placed finishes.

Talk of a top-six finish feels extremely fanciful given the current state of the squad, and borders on delusional based on what we’ve seen recently.

 

[Jurgen the German]

yeah its funny how people judge that. Last season and this we was in the top 5 going into December then started to pile up one injury after another and low and behold our performances start to drop. When liverpool are without VVD and their best forwards they struggled. City whitout Rodri. Scum without Saliba and Saka. Yet some how the fact we are missing 7-8 probable starters does not come into thought.

This is what we need to fix. One season was unlucky. Two and something is going on. We will already start the season without Simons.

But you get nothing for where you finish in December. We started ok with Frank until about October/November.

 

[Gazza]

I don’t think ‘drifting further away from competing every year’ is true.

Conte’s first season had us back up in 4th, then Ange’s first had us back up in 5th, and his second had us win the Europa with an injury ravaged squad. And don’t forget we were third in the league with a quarter of this season gone.

So I think this narrative of gradual decline since 2019 isn’t true. It was ups and downs, then a freak season last season, followed by a toxic atmosphere and more injuries dragging us down this season.

I truly think next season we will be right back up around the top 6 with just a few decent signings and better luck with injuries.

Bournemouth, Brighton, Sunderland and probably palace along all those above will have Europe to contend with.

Alonso at Chelsea is a dark horse to break the top 4 as an unknown entity in this league as manager without Europe.

I would be disappointed if we are not challenging and competing for a European place and a cup.

It all comes down to our recruitment. The manager is not in question.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Doesn't completely ignore it, no one can come up with who these great players available for loan to help us were - just hide behind 'it's not my job to know'. If such players were available, I'll assume they would have gone somewhere else if not to us as we are far from the only team who would take decent players on loan - so who were they?

If there were viable loan options then I've no doubt we would have gone for them considering what we was willing to spunk on Gallagher...

Ignored it as in, didn't mention it at all in the analysis

 

[elltrev]

The overall trajectory has clearly been downward, even allowing for the occasional top-four finish along the way. Since 2019, we have gone from genuine title contenders, to simply fighting for the top four, to missing out on European qualification through the league in three separate seasons. Culminating in a near relegation and two consecutive 17th placed finishes.

Talk of a top-six finish feels extremely fanciful given the current state of the squad, and borders on delusional based on what we’ve seen recently.

I agree the overall trajectory is downward, but it’s been in two distinct phases - averaging 5th to 6th for five seasons, then suddenly finishing 17th for two. And I think that sudden drop reflects that there have been some very specific circumstances these two seasons, namely insane injuries / prioritising Europa / toxic home atmosphere (remember all the player-fan altercations and booing of Vicario every time he touched the ball?)

And the current ‘state of the squad’ has to take into account the insane injuries we suffered.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I agree the overall trajectory is downward, but it’s been in two distinct phases - averaging 5th to 6th for five seasons, then suddenly finishing 17th for two. And I think that sudden drop reflects that there have been some very specific circumstances these two seasons, namely insane injuries / prioritising Europa / toxic home atmosphere (remember all the player-fan altercations and booing of Vicario every time he touched the ball?)

We have also only missed Europe once in 24 years (albeit there have been recent favourable terms and the drops offs seen before last season (I was told it was because of the EC by dozens on here) have been seen before 2019 and after. I don't think there can be an argument made that Levy was not good for the club in taking us forward from where we were. I think we can say that whilst being critical of his mistakes of which there were many. I think though it is also clear, despite odd protests at times on here, that the Lewis family have and still do hold the overall power of the club and there was a reason they allowed Levy to do so as they did, because he made them 4bn from 55m. So I don't buy the take from them that he was a monster to be painted for the fans when they had 26 years to remove him, as I say, when he had the drive to see through the project to make them rich they showed no such appetite

 

[Raziel]

I think the idea that Levy’s failings on the football side are “vastly overstated” only works if you completely separate him from the decisions made over the last 6–7 years — which makes no sense when he’s been the constant throughout all of it.

Since Poch left in 2019, we have gone from Champions League finalists and regular top-four finishers into a club that has drifted further away from competing every single season. That decline hasn’t happened by accident.

Look at the managerial appointments alone. Mourinho, Nuno, Conte, then Ange — all completely different profiles with completely different football philosophies. Every time a manager came in, the squad had to be reshaped again, only for the project to be abandoned within 18 months. That points to a lack of structure and leadership above the manager.

Recruitment has been similarly inconsistent. For every good signing, there have been multiple expensive misses or short-term panic buys. We constantly looked like a club reacting to problems instead of following a long-term football plan.

And while people rightly praise the stadium and commercial growth, that’s only part of running a football club. On the pitch, Spurs have regressed badly since 2019. The football has often been poor, the squad planning has been chaotic, and the club has burned through managers while falling further behind rivals.

Nobody is saying Levy is responsible for every single bad result or transfer. But when the same person oversees the entire period of decline, from the end of the Poch era to now, it’s fair to question his football leadership. At some point the accountability has to reach the top.

I guess what I’m trying to say is he shouldn’t get immunity from the last 6-7 years because he was instrumental in lifting the club from a perennial mid table outfit to serious contenders. Even Wenger had to step down at Arsenal eventually after years of decline in spite of winning 3 league titles and managing difficult financial waters when they moved from Highbury.

I almost don't want to touch this because it comes across as me defending or wanting Levy back, but the Levy bad man narrative is a little too simplistic, as is the decline post Poch.

All clubs go through cycles, our run from ENIC purchase to 2019 is quite extraordinary, almost all upward trajectory (even if final trophy haul didn't land), a slight downturn had to be expected at some point (look at United, Arsenal, Chelsea), and even in that downturn we have 3 CL participations, 1 domestic up final and a European trophy win.

The last two years on the other hand, the 17th places and the catastrophic injuries need to be deeply reviewed and are unacceptable,

 

[LutonSpurs]

Be that as it may, is there something inherently wrong with that on an internet discussion forum?

Nope. Who said it was wrong?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I almost don't want to touch this because it comes across as me defending or wanting Levy back, but the Levy bad man narrative is a little too simplistic, as is the decline post Poch.

All clubs go through cycles, our run from ENIC purchase to 2019 is quite extraordinary, almost all upward trajectory (even if final trophy haul didn't land), a slight downturn had to be expected at some point (look at United, Arsenal, Chelsea), and even in that downturn we have 3 CL participations, 1 domestic up final and a European trophy win.

The last two years on the other hand, the 17th places and the catastrophic injuries need to be deeply reviewed and are unacceptable,

Since Jol to 2019 we'd been on an upward curve. The Poch era put us above all expectations when compared to much agreed football metrics (size of club, finances etc).

But those expectations are then set, set in the fans minds. In reality, they're hard to live up to.

Our watermark is 5th or 6th...so thats where you cast judgement from.

As others have said, we were in the main achieving that level. The two outliers being the last two seasons. Both blighted by injury, and last seasons league performance obviously traded for going balls out for EL. Yes, we got over the line, and got the trophy monkey off our back. A more than fair trade off you'd think, given fans chronic ire at those two ball and chain scenarios.
This season has been a genuine disaster (obviously not the staying up bit!), no question.

Levy hit a glass ceiling. No doubt. But beyond bankrolling more money in, from the owners or outside investment, that ceiling is there for anyone.

So the new crew are implying that is happening. Ceiling removed. Let's hope so.

The way they are insinuating the blame is on past regimes is distasteful. They are not a new regime. They were that regime. The only way ANYONE can answer this is if they have knowledge of how much autonomy Levy has in the TOTAL running of the club. None of US will know. The Lewis's will. BUT it was still that family that gave Levy that control. And now they're saying they don't like what they saw after 25 years LOL ('right we're stepping in!'). And even that's if they gave him FULL control. The Lewis's might still have had input into top line decisions.
It's disrespectful, (imo) it bricks on the work DL did do, and the resultant renewed wc club infrastructure and long term safety net its given them.

Regardless, them issuing this kind of PR 'lets go!' nonsense...is it changes nothing. As I referred to earlier...there's two top line ways you can run the club differently, and as fans will often bemoan...it's spend more money.

 

[billyiddo]

Given the importance placed on trophies our post 2019 era should viewed as our best no? Given we won the Europa League

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I don’t think ‘drifting further away from competing every year’ is true.

Conte’s first season had us back up in 4th, then Ange’s first had us back up in 5th, and his second had us win the Europa with an injury ravaged squad. And don’t forget we were third in the league with a quarter of this season gone.

So I think this narrative of gradual decline since 2019 isn’t true. It was ups and downs, then a freak season last season, followed by a toxic atmosphere and more injuries dragging us down this season.

I truly think next season we will be right back up around the top 6 with just a few decent signings and better luck with injuries.

I think this is also part of the issue though with Levy. We’d occasionally get a manager in who would achieve something through force of their own personality and ability, but it was never consistent with a long term club strategy. It was continually hoping for some short term shot in the arm to help us make that next leap. That’s why I agree with the idea that since 2019 we’ve been in decline. Whether it was intentional or he stumbled upon it, Levy struck gold with Poch. And he threw it away. Didn’t realise what he had, and didn’t understand what made Poch able to be successful.

Up until 2019, Levy was the best chairman in the league. Incredible achievements in the infrastructure side and consistent over performance relative to transfer spend and wages paid. But he reached the limit of what he could do, he had no idea how to take us forward in our new reality.

Ironically, constraints often lead to better, more focused strategy. And so the combination of Levy and Poch, the focus on youth, the playing style that everyone could buy into and be suited for, it gave us a culture and a way of working that was hard to replicate. And yet with those constraints lifted, Levy didn’t know what to do. We have just been nothing since 2019. We lost the alignment, we didn’t know how to use our resources effectively, and thrashed from one idea to the other in the hopes of a short term shot in the arm that would help us take that next step. Even in the Allnut article today it references going back to youth, which Levy suggested was a deliberate move after some of the failed big transfer signings. But it left us short to compete properly in a league that was getting more physical, and set us back from even our base level expectations of 5th/6th, let alone being able to push on with the new stadium.

I actually think the Lewis kids and Vinai ‘get’ this. I find it unsavoury how they are planting stories to make it look like Levy was a fool when they gave him free rein for a quarter of a century. But if their question was how are they going to become a regular title challenger and they looked at what Levy was doing, I can see why they concluded he was holding us back. And the three main things are a lack of patience, a lack of long term strategy, and too tight a wage structure.

With the best will, I think they were trying to fix some of these things this season. But they initiated too much transition too quickly, and it almost ended in disaster.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But you get nothing for where you finish in December. We started ok with Frank until about October/November.

True
But his football with zero possession or attacking tactics wasn’t sustainable even with more fit players

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Given the importance placed on trophies our post 2019 era should viewed as our best no? Given we won the Europa League

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree the overall trajectory is downward, but it’s been in two distinct phases - averaging 5th to 6th for five seasons, then suddenly finishing 17th for two. And I think that sudden drop reflects that there have been some very specific circumstances these two seasons, namely insane injuries / prioritising Europa / toxic home atmosphere (remember all the player-fan altercations and booing of Vicario every time he touched the ball?)

And the current ‘state of the squad’ has to take into account the insane injuries we suffered.

What confidence do you have that the injury situation will improve given the last two seasons of evidence?