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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

robp135 said:
Your not working class are you. Thats who we’ve been talking about.
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Yeh so petrol, household fuel bills, food, basics.....all which have gone up and continue to rise because of the ongoing conflicts.

Its Iran thats pushed working class peoples basic bills up in the past 2 months, not illegals.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Yeh so petrol, household fuel bills, food, basics.....all which have gone up and continue to rise because of the ongoing conflicts.

Its Iran thats pushed parking class peoples basic bills up in the past 2 months, not illegals
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Mass unenforced immigration has been an issue for 3 decades. Iran war has been an issue for 3 months. Thats the difference.
 
robp135 said:
Mass unenforced immigration has been an issue for 3 decades. Iran war has been an issue for 3 months. Thats the difference.
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And petrol/food costs have moved more in 3 months than nearly those 3 decades all told (beyond natural inflation)

I dont see the correlation between immigration and the price at the pumps and at the tills which impact people in the wallet.

I havent seen Ireland have to close roads because of fuel shortages in 30 years because of immigrants

Energy costs rising approx 60% and Food 40% since 2020 isnt about immigrants.
 
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LutonSpurs said:
Same with the Tories. They've lost the middle classes and the working classes they gained when they last won. It's hardly a Labour problem. It's a centrist problem.
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The difference is, I think the Conservatives can win back votes when Reform are required to show fiscal ability.

The Labour voters they've won have never voted for a party on economic grounds, so are less likely to be pushed away.

If Labour can prove they're more reliable on immigration than Reform, then they can do the same. But nothing they've done so far would suggest they can.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I am jesting, but there were comments about a million on paper not being much money or something....
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Tbf if someone is a net worth millionaire. £500k home paid off and £500k invested, no debt, they would need to live extreme frugally to not work. 30 years ago that person could retire and live very comfortably. But it is still a better position the 80% will retire in to
unfortunately.
 
Baleforce said:
the rhetoric breaks my heart, immigration is not a problem, cuts to spending on public services are the issue, it's just othering to cover up failures elsewhere

Labour's argument on immigration should be that it is a good thing and should be encouraged
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You could quite easily get into a situation where this was the majority public sentiment. But Labour politicians and their core voters would not be prepared to do what’s needed to be done to get to that point.
 
Baleforce said:
the rhetoric breaks my heart, immigration is not a problem, cuts to spending on public services are the issue, it's just othering to cover up failures elsewhere

Labour's argument on immigration should be that it is a good thing and should be encouraged
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Immigration would be amazing if we could do what other countries are doing by allowing pathways for Doctors, engineers, people with good work ethic to come across when and where the country needed.

I think the uncontrolled, non vetting, hotels etc have all turned something that used to be positive into something people detest in general.

The government only have themselves to blame for this sentiment.
 
Gazza said:
Immigration would be amazing if we could do what other countries are doing by allowing pathways for Doctors, engineers, people with good work ethic to come across when and where the country needed.

I think the uncontrolled, non vetting, hotels etc have all turned something that used to be positive into something people detest in general.

The government only have themselves to blame for this sentiment.
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Yeh I see these arguements all the time about “the small boats is only 5% of immigrants” as if people shouldn’t be bothered by it. If anything it’s the opposite and those pro immigration should be looking to stop it because its what most of the anti immigrant sentiment.

The people that come here, don’t speak English, don’t assimilate, immediately claim benefits with no intention to work, no skills. Just stop letting them in and Reform wouldn’t even exist. And if that is only a small percentage it shouldn’t upset anyone to deport them.
 
Gazza said:
Immigration would be amazing if we could do what other countries are doing by allowing pathways for Doctors, engineers, people with good work ethic to come across when and where the country needed.

I think the uncontrolled, non vetting, hotels etc have all turned something that used to be positive into something people detest in general.

The government only have themselves to blame for this sentiment.
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People also have to take responsibility for personal actions and words. If someone cant distinguish between a working immigrant and an illegal then thats on them. The government 100% shoulders the blame but I cant be having that its their fault if someone is racially abused at work.....thats a cop out IMO

Acts of racism and violence agaisnt people at work is on a rapid increase given then rhetoric of "I dont mind if they come here and work" that does the rounds then there isnt much of an excuse for it. The stats for racism agaisnt people working in the NHS is frightening......there shouldn't be a get of jail card for people for that.
 
Baleforce said:
the rhetoric breaks my heart, immigration is not a problem, cuts to spending on public services are the issue, it's just othering to cover up failures elsewhere

Labour's argument on immigration should be that it is a good thing and should be encouraged
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It's an interesting study in human behaviour this. The left wing and the press have beaten the drum about cuts to public spending for years now, the the point where intelligent people like you believe it and even repeat it.

The truth is, the tax burden is higher in this country than it has ever been since WWII. That money is spent, along with plenty more that we don't have.

More is being spent now on public services than in generations.

The problem is that too many people aren't working and those who are, are not productive enough.
 
Baleforce said:
the rhetoric breaks my heart, immigration is not a problem, cuts to spending on public services are the issue, it's just othering to cover up failures elsewhere

Labour's argument on immigration should be that it is a good thing and should be encouraged
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I disagree slightly. Mass low skilled immigration that has caused the population to rise by 15 million in 20 years is a problem. Immigration has been driven by big business wanting to undercut wages and conditions by social dumping. We've had neo-liberalism's version of immigration

Immigration should be good, because it should be based on love (spouses), compassion (asylum), study and high skilled workers. But that's not been the reality

There should also be a cap that is adjusted to get the net population decreasing gently (to reduce pressure on housing and services, without the cliff edge of Japan or Italy)
 
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MartyFunkhouser said:
People also have to take responsibility for personal actions and words. If someone cant distinguish between a working immigrant and an illegal then thats on them. The government 100% shoulders the blame but I cant be having that it’s their fault if someone is racially abused at work.....thats a cop out IMO

Acts of racism and violence agaisnt people at work is on a rapid increase given then rhetoric of "I dont mind if they come here and work" that does the rounds then there isnt much of an excuse for it. The stats for racism agaisnt people working in the NHS is frightening......there shouldn't be a get of jail card for people for that.
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i think that the whole talk is around illegal migrants.

People who are racist will probably come out more so, but I would say the state has fanned it. I grew up seeing racism, having my parents tell me their stories etc.

I’m not justifying any prejudice, that’s going to be there, I’d rather be honest and see why we are where we are.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I disagree slightly. Mass low skilled immigration that has causes the population to rise by 15 million in 20 years is a problem. Immigration has been driven by big business wanting to undercut wages and conditions by social dumping. We've had neo-liberalisms version of inmigration

Immigration should be good, because it should be based on love (spouses), compassion (asylum), study and high skilled workers. But that's not been the reality

There should also be a cap that is adjusted to get the net population decreasing gently (to reduce pressure on housing and services, without the cliff edge of Japan or Italy)
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Agree with all of this except you want a gentle population increase so that those working pay into the pension funds and tax to fund NHS etc.
 
Gazza said:
Immigration would be amazing if we could do what other countries are doing by allowing pathways for Doctors, engineers, people with good work ethic to come across when and where the country needed.

I think the uncontrolled, non vetting, hotels etc have all turned something that used to be positive into something people detest in general.

The government only have themselves to blame for this sentiment.

i think that the whole talk is around illegal migrants.

People who are racist will probably come out more so, but I would say the state has fanned it. I grew up seeing racism, having my parents tell me their stories etc.

I’m not justifying any prejudice, that’s going to be there, I’d rather be honest and see why we are where we are.
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Of course but as I say words matter, its easy to distinguish between illegal immigrants and migrants, its a case of wanting to or not.

I would also say in the cases I have witnessed of racism recently that it comes from people who seemingly have no impact on their lives from immigration but there seems a new found comfort in being racist.

As much as governments have failed in the immigration stakes, society has done well to create safe spaces for racists and made excuses for them IMO
 
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