The *WHEN* we go down thread

[SirPercyHotspur]

One thing that people rarely talk about is that the Championship is a 46-game season. I haven't watched a Championship game in ages, but it used to be a rough league. Rough league means... injuries. Injuries means backup players. We already have a lot of injuries, which means we'd need a lot of backup players too.

As we've seen this season, you also need leaders on the pitch. Players who can rally their team-mates, but also players who can put their foot on the ball and help the team through a difficult time on the pitch (something we've been sorely lacking this season too). That means senior/experienced players.

Planning for a season in the Championship with a team of youngsters is madness in my opinion. We should have given more time and opportunities to our younger players over the past couple of seasons but, as usual, going from one extreme to the other is suicidal. Also, Maddison and Kulusevski - should they stay at the club - can be considered as injury-prone.

All that, to me, points to the team needing major investment, even in a lower league. Our problem isn't that the opposition is better than us; our problem is structural: the squad is unbalanced, with some profiles sorely lacking. Going down won't change that. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure that problem could be fixed in one window.

Agreed will we need experienced players and plenty won't be leaving Spurs as they will find it hard to find clubs willing to pay them what they are getting at Spurs.
Championship is tough but looking at two of our loans , Devine has had 41 appearances many the full 90 and has had no injuries, Phillips the same no injuries , 37 appearances.

 

[Yiddo.1882]

I don’t usually watch much championship football but Maresca’s Leicester won the league a couple of seasons ago using a system that is fairly similar to RDZ’s.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Agreed will we need experienced players and plenty won't be leaving Spurs as they will find it hard to find clubs willing to pay them what they are getting at Spurs.
Championship is tough but looking at two of our loans , Devine has had 41 appearances many the full 90 and has had no injuries, Phillips the same no injuries , 37 appearances.

It's unclear whether our contracts have a relegation clause. I've read anything and everything on that matter and I'm just as clueless as I was before I did. I'd be surprised if those who are playing with prominent national teams agreed to a season in the Championship.

Even assuming nobody leaves, we would need a left midfielder/winger, at least two players who can pass the ball, a defensive midfielder and a goalkeeper (since Vicario appears to be leaving no matter what). Then you need backup for the positions where you don't have a good up and coming youngster.

Then you need to replace every player leaving, bar for the box to box midfielders.

That's five first-team starters plus a number of backup players. When was the last time we had that much incoming? Add to that the fact that we will need to integrate these players into the team as well as a new philosophy and it's not a given we would make a strong start to the season. But can we afford a slow start after such a miserable season? Not sure.

I really hope we don't go down, even that means keeping some of these players for one more year because I'm really not convinced we would go straight back up... but I hope I'm wrong, of course.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It's unclear whether our contracts have a relegation clause. I've read anything and everything on that matter and I'm just as clueless as I was before I did. I'd be surprised if those who are playing with prominent national teams agreed to a season in the Championship.

Even assuming nobody leaves, we would need a left midfielder/winger, at least two players who can pass the ball, a defensive midfielder and a goalkeeper (since Vicario appears to be leaving no matter what). Then you need backup for the positions where you don't have a good up and coming youngster.

Then you need to replace every player leaving, bar for the box to box midfielders.

That's five first-team starters plus a number of backup players. When was the last time we had that much incoming? Add to that the fact that we will need to integrate these players into the team as well as a new philosophy and it's not a given we would make a strong start to the season. But can we afford a slow start after such a miserable season? Not sure.

I really hope we don't go down, even that means keeping some of these players for one more year because I'm really not convinced we would go straight back up... but I hope I'm wrong, of course.

Relegation is a massive unknown. I've seen people say "we'll definitely come back up" and others say "we haven't a chance of coming back up".

None of us know because this situation is unprecedented. None of us know because we don't really yet know the financial implications of us going down. Relegation creates huge uncertainties while the only certainties I can see are negative.

Our reputation takes a massive hit that could see players more cautious about joining us if we did come back up. The side we'd have in the Championship would likely be off much poorer quality than the sides we've had that finished top 6 over the last 20 years. That means we'd probably have to reconstruct the squad when we go down and do a similar job if we did come back up - all that while we've had at least a year of our finances being decimated.

There is a seductive narrative about relegation but I just don't see it when you scratch the surface. If it happens, I'll look for some positives but, right now, I just see negatives and risk of other negatives.

 

[Legohamster]

Relegation is a massive unknown. I've seen people say "we'll definitely come back up" and others say "we haven't a chance of coming back up".

None of us know because this situation is unprecedented. None of us know because we don't really yet know the financial implications of us going down. Relegation creates huge uncertainties while the only certainties I can see are negative.

Our reputation takes a massive hit that could see players more cautious about joining us if we did come back up. The side we'd have in the Championship would likely be off much poorer quality than the sides we've had that finished top 6 over the last 20 years. That means we'd probably have to reconstruct the squad when we go down and do a similar job if we did come back up - all that while we've had at least a year of our finances being decimated.

There is a seductive narrative about relegation but I just don't see it when you scratch the surface. If it happens, I'll look for some positives but, right now, I just see negatives and risk of other negatives.

The thing is , we should come back up straight away, anyone relegated from the PL should really because even after 1 season in the PL you've got such a massive financial advantage over the rest it's not really fair.

Then you consider the players we will sell to bump the coffers, we could still sign players like Trafford for example.

We could cherry pick every Championship sides best player, that's how much of an advantage we will have.

The main issue we will have, is our recruitment is overseen by macarons.

 

[DeanoAustin]

The thing is , we should come back up straight away, anyone relegated from the PL should really because even after 1 season in the PL you've got such a massive financial advantage over the rest it's not really fair.

Then you consider the players we will sell to bump the coffers, we could still sign players like Trafford for example.

We could cherry pick every Championship sides best player, that's how much of an advantage we will have.

The main issue we will have, is our recruitment is overseen by macarons.

You'd hope so and I haven't looked at the numbers in any great detail. But on the flip side, we have stadium debt to service while matchday revenue will decline, we'll have a manager on 10 times the average salary in that league, we could have a bunch of players on ridiculous salaries by Championship standards who may not want to go, we owe a massive amount on transfer fees already and morale will be on the floor.

 

[Muttley]

One thing that people rarely talk about is that the Championship is a 46-game season. I haven't watched a Championship game in ages, but it used to be a rough league. Rough league means... injuries. Injuries means backup players. We already have a lot of injuries, which means we'd need a lot of backup players too.

As we've seen this season, you also need leaders on the pitch. Players who can rally their team-mates, but also players who can put their foot on the ball and help the team through a difficult time on the pitch (something we've been sorely lacking this season too). That means senior/experienced players.

Planning for a season in the Championship with a team of youngsters is madness in my opinion. We should have given more time and opportunities to our younger players over the past couple of seasons but, as usual, going from one extreme to the other is suicidal. Also, Maddison and Kulusevski - should they stay at the club - can be considered as injury-prone.

All that, to me, points to the team needing major investment, even in a lower league. Our problem isn't that the opposition is better than us; our problem is structural: the squad is unbalanced, with some profiles sorely lacking. Going down won't change that. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure that problem could be fixed in one window.

I have actually mentioned this 46 game thing before. A subset of that is playing 23 cup finals at our stadium. There will be a few teams that have played us before dropping into the Championship. The rest will be licking their licks at a Spurs scalp and will be really up for any game at our sparkling stadium. It could start to think like our annual West Ham games where it has been clear it is their cup final and not ours. So we get poor results.

I'm less worried about your leadership problem though. When you remove leaders from a changing room new ones appear. They feel less intimidated once the seats have been vacated. They probably never felt the full love for that leader anyway. I have a feeling this has been the case for years at the club. Take Hojbjerg as an example. A so called leader that was walking over the half way line when you were either sprinting back or watching from the bench. Probably never mentioned by the manager even though it would absolutely have been if you had done it. So resentment builds and then the player leaves. That empowers you to become the midfield leader. I think there is a lot of this at Spurs. It was definitely the case 3-5 years ago where we saw these double standards. I think it is still there now.

The most important thing to fix is the culture. That means it is not OK to lose any football match. Ange made it OK, Frank made it OK and we cannot afford RDZ to make it OK just because Tavistock and ENIC make it OK. It's the single biggest thing to solve for. Way more important than how good players are or tactics and formations. It's a disease at our club that has got worse in recent years.

 

[Legohamster]

You'dYou'd hope so and I haven't looked at the numbers in any great detail. But on the flip side, we have stadium debt to service while matchday revenue will decline, we'll have a manager on 10 times the average salary in that league, we could have a bunch of players on ridiculous salaries by Championship standards who may not want to go, we owe a massive amount on transfer fees already and morale will be on the floor.

i think the Morale thing will be pretty easy to overcome, selling those want away players and win a few games will cure that.

 

[Muttley]

I have serious doubts about RDZ if we go down to be honest. He’s a very highly rated manager. Will he ply his trade in the second tier with a squad that will likely be gutted? I have my doubts.

I also think it’s fiscally reckless of the club to have committed to paying him 12m a year if we’re in the Championship where the average manager wage is 1.2 - 1.5m. For a club who will have their revenues slashed, lay off ordinary working people, that commitment is reckless.

To me, getting RDZ in only works if he keeps us up. If we go down, I see more turmoil on that front.

For me, RDZ is the single most important person at the football club. I'd pay him double that if I genuinely believed he would get us back into the PL. Any manager has way more influence on the outcome than any player, chairman or other employee. If we believe we have the right guy, then let him be in the centre.

Just the way I think to be fair.

From what RDZ said on the way in, it felt like he was our manager whether we stay up or go down right?

 

[Legohamster]

For me, RDZ is the single most important person at the football club. I'd pay him double that if I genuinely believed he would get us back into the PL. Any manager has way more influence on the outcome than any player, chairman or other employee. If we believe we have the right guy, then let him be in the centre.

Just the way I think to be fair.

From what RDZ said on the way in, it felt like he was our manager whether we stay up or go down right?

I heard it in the same way.

A year in the championship won't damage him if we come straight back up, he's still young for a manager.

 

[DeanoAustin]

For me, RDZ is the single most important person at the football club. I'd pay him double that if I genuinely believed he would get us back into the PL. Any manager has way more influence on the outcome than any player, chairman or other employee. If we believe we have the right guy, then let him be in the centre.

Just the way I think to be fair.

From what RDZ said on the way in, it felt like he was our manager whether we stay up or go down right?

Let's see. I have my doubts. I could see it blowing up spectacularly if we go down.