I take it you feel strongly about this and if you had children you would be proud of them to protest against ICE. Would you advise them to attend that protest carrying a gun and then intervene in an arrest? If no, why?
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American politics
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
I take it you feel strongly about this and if you had children you would be proud of them to protest against ICE. Would you advise them to attend that protest carrying a gun and then intervene in an arrest? If no, why?
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
I feel strongly that there is absolutely no reason for him to have been executed. I don't agree with American gun laws and amendments but they exist and for that reason he is protected by them, as he is the right to protest. He was carry the gun, he did not draw his gun, there is a stark difference. If we are now saying the threshold for being killed in America is carrying your licenced weapon then alot of people are in trouble
The Second Amendment is not a blanket protection for any individual who possesses or uses a firearm. If your actions fall outside of the law, which obstructing law enforcement is, then the Amendment offers no constitutional protection.
He didn't use the firearm. He didn't hold it at any stage. It was taken off him. When he was shot and murdered he was not armed.
Obstructing the law does not give an ICE agent the authority to act as judge and executioner.
I never said he did. It wasn’t an ICE agent either it was Border patrol, who are only invovled in Minnesota because the governor and major orderd the police to stand down and not support ICE.
Then why are you going on about the firearm then? It was a legally held non-factor. It was down to poorly trained, trigger happy federal agents put into a position they should never have been in by Trump and his administration.
Because he would not had been shot if he didn’t have the gun.
Those agents would not have been there if it were not for lack of police support.
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
4 Or 5 armed men laid on top of someone having disarmed and pepper sprayed him, and people cant see the level of excessive force. There is no hope
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
Talking about mad cnuts
Is that not the issue though? He didn’t have the gun and was shot, they disarmed him then shot him once they had removed that risk.
The fact that he turned up with a gun on his person probably just goes for numerous Americans at any particular time, they have school teachers that carry guns.
I don’t agree with Americas gun laws, but let’s be honest, ICE are just killing people needlessly at this point.
At least you (United Kingdom) realised you fudged up and got rid of her in a month, US fudged up and stuck with Trump for 4 years.
If ICE followed the proper protocals and the law they wouldn't have been acting the way they did and hence no need for those agents.
Whatever way you try to twist it, Trump has, intentionally, made this situation.
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
He was shot within about 0.00004 seconds of the gun being removed and the agent that fired the shots won’t have known, likely believing he was reaching for the gun.
Again there is a difference between possessing a gun and possessing a gun while committing a crime. He was committing a crime by impending law enforcement.
These issues with ICE are not happening in most US Cities. They are exclusive to cities where the Mayor, State Governor are hostile towards them and proactively support aggregators.
There have been more enforced deportations in Texas, Florida, Arizona but you don’t see any issues and that’s because the police are on side and they shut down these “protests”
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
Then thats terrible training again, because his colleague had his gun and Pretti was on the ground face down with officers on his back.
As for the "commiting a crime" that isn't fact, its still being determined if he was actually commiting a crime.
Being at a protest, filming and stepping in to protect someone who was pushed to the ground becomes very Grey on what actual crime he was commiting. Interference isn't a crime
Hmm, no sorry, I think it’s fairly clear from the video posted above.
There’s no issue with him bringing the gun to the protest, it’s legal. So it actually doesn’t matter in this case that he had it with him unless there is any evidence he intended to use it. Since he was shot, no evidence has been produced that this was his intention.
The actual shooting itself, he has an open hand, and a phone in the other, he tries to stick up for someone being pushed and help them off the floor, he’s taken to the floor himself and is in a position where technically yes, he COULD reach for a gun, but I can’t see any sign that he does. He’s vastly outnumbered and let’s face it this is actually helping his cause as he probably wants to show how heavy handed ICE can be.
Someone takes his gun off him, and whilst you’re right, he’s shot quickly after, I think the threat assessment is appalling, and I think k he gets shot because someone shouts gun numerous times. To me, that ICE bloke then takes his chance, seems it will give him plausible deniability that he heard someone shout gun and that’s why he fired. The other guy who then puts numerous bullets in to him once he’s down, for me, is just taking his chance to shoot someone.
That for me is the problem with these ICE ‘officers’. They strike me as being a bit like when you see minimum wage security guys dressing in tactical gear as if the police weren’t recruiting. They want to wear military kit and balaclava up as it means they can go around rucking and on the off chance they might get to shoot someone, and what makes it better is in America they probably won’t get charged with anything because it will be covered up.
Their own president comes out and says “a gunman attacked agents” despite there being video evidence that it simply didn’t happen. As someone who’s been on both sides of this, I’m sorry, but there’s no lawful reason to shoot the bloke here and that’s from someone who completely understands why people end up being shot by law enforcement. I’m not always a fan at all of protestors, but this bloke didn’t need to die and I find it wild to the point of ridiculous the amount of people who ignore clear evidence to support the people doing it (and I don’t mean you by that, but the wider debate around this).
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
People defending ICE here genuinely need to get away from the algorithm. It's stealing your humanity if you ever had any.
ricky2tricky4city
Barry Daines
You mean Trump Miller Noem Bovino.
I can't believe some people can't recognise that such a response/reaction to an event by an administration/government is a massive red flag.