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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

DubSpur said:
That season Everton weren't in Europe and went out of both cups early. So they didn't compete across all compeitions or compete for trophies. The next season they dropped off again in the league.

At the start of a season, new manager, just won a trophy, fans get carried away with expectations. It's human nature.
Reality is that we were 17th last season. Finishing in the top half and showing progress in the way we play is a good improvement.
I'd be worried if the board were expecting us to be suddenly competing for the CL places. Getting into Europe in any form would be very good progress.

I'm not defending Frank here. So far I don't see anything on the pitch, outside 45 mins yesterday, that gives me hope that he is the right man for the job. 14th, poor football, no real signs of any identity, no patterns in attack, no signs of progress, and sliding down the table at the moment. That's not acceptable.
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Not sure if you saw my other post or not but I just think saying ‘reality is we finished 17th last season’ just doesn’t cut it. You have to mention the Europa win, because it’s inextricably linked. We were supposedly favourites and should have walked that competition due to the quality of our squad. So let’s take the trophy out of it. Let’s average out last season and say that a 17th league finish and a Europa trophy equals a 10th place league finish and no trophy. Is that fair?

In that instance, Frank is then taking over a team that routinely qualifies for Europe through the league but slipped the season before due to an unprecedented injury crisis. I wouldn’t think getting us from 10th into genuinely competing for the European spots again would be that hard, or that much progress. It’s just getting us back to by and large where we always have been.

And it’s not me saying I expect us to compete on all fronts, it’s the club! They made a change because they believed it would give them the best possible chance of competing on multiple fronts in the *coming season* and beyond. They were not expecting this to be a year of absolutely nothing but setting foundations.

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treepits said:
Apologies for what I think will be a long(ish) post. Ive been on the wine

Must start with a declaration - until today I haven't watched any football since our 2-2 at Newcstle. I'm done with wasting my time as I think VAR is not fit for purpose. Would my attitude be different if Spurs were dong well? Maybe, but then I've sat through some turgid times throughout the past 40 odd years and not felt this detached from the sport as a whole

That being said, I watched the second half today once I learned there was no VAR and I really hope we keep Frank for at least this season, if not the next 2-3, and give him time to build a team. I'm not basing that on our 2nd half display as I understand the 1st half was woeful but we have to give managers time. The caveat being if they lose the dressing room which I don't believe he has

Since Poch (who never actually won a trophy, lest we forget) we've tried managers who have won it all before and managers who are on their way up and no one has succeeded. The board obviously felt Frank was than right man a few months ago and it would be wrong and a big step backwards to sack him now

I get that fans are entitled to boo the team and that is their right but the ones who are lucky enough to go week in week out have a job to get behind the lads regardless and show that we support them whatever. I remember booing Chris Armstrong when he was going through a rough patch and now I wish I hadn't - he needed our support more than ever then. There's only one person who has ever been associated with Spurs, past or present, who it's obligatory to abuse and we all know who that is (clue: a judas clam)

I may have stepped away from football for the time being but I'll always be Spurs
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Post of the thread mate well said. As for VAR i have said on here many times its brick, spoils the match going feeling and is there because of the money it has made for those idiots who brought it in.
 
Raziel said:
Yep, the story is Levy was turning down offers, so they got rid of him to sell
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The other rumour is that diminishing his influence and making him the bad guy also forces his price down. Loads of city talk about it apparently. Clubs 100% for sale, the kids don't want the burden, they want their inheritance. "We are here for success" is just goof PR for anyone looking to come in.
 
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metalgear said:
i think we have a greater chance of winning the CL than the FA Cup - just look at our EPL record, we can't beat any of the top 5 at the moment !
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Unfortunately, 3 of that Top 5 are also still in the Champions League. If we manage to get to the Last 16 or 1/4 final, you can guarantee we are pulling one of them, and I doubt we are beating any of them over 3 legs
 
parklane1 said:
Post of the thread mate well said. As for VAR i have said on here many times its brick, spoils the match going feeling and is there because of the money it has made for those idiots who brought it in.
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Absolutely spot on. As stated in a previous post. It has absolutely killed the enjoyment of going to a live game for me, And believe me, we loved going to the game, due to the drive most of the time we turned going to the Lane is a mini-break for me and Mrs PW, stopping over at the Inn on the Park
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
If Vinai is truly Mr Long Term and we end up keeping Frank, and we stick it through a nothing season because of his foresight and end up getting to a place similar to Arsenal right now of consistent high level performances, I’ll say it will have been a really great move.

I guess the whole bet is that massive organisational alignment between data driven decision makers like Frank and Lange, over a long enough time period, making the high % plays is going to compound into winning football. We’ll see if it comes off.

I guess my curiosity is, why was this (the Lange / Frank model) the one that this club would have decided to double down on? Out of all the models out there? Why the one that is misaligned with the values of the fanbase and one that breeds immediate toxicity if results don’t follow?

I also think if this is Vinai’s play he needs to get way more visible defending Frank. If this is a real long term project they should be explaining what they think the fans should be seeing, and what they are working towards. Because it’s not fair on Frank to be getting booed by the fans and getting sacked in the morning chants from the south stand. To not defend him now is to act like you’re waiting to see how results improve. So I say back him publically if that’s the intention. Especially when you said upon joining you’d be much more of a public face.
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Because we have tried everything else and failed so now they are trying this model (again).
 
Mcfee said:
But I’m not saying that it’s just people on here. It comes from the club. At the start of the season I didn’t really expect much better than mid-table (as Finney has highlighted). If you hire Thomas Frank then mid-table is where you’re at. Even more so if you hang your hat on James Maddison as your main creative outlet. (Sorry to diss James, he’s a fine player and a loss but he’s inconsistent).
And that pre-dates Frank. The debate here seems to divided on the basis of those who think it’s TFs fault and those who blame the players. I think it’s both!
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You're somewhere near where I am. At the start of the season I would have thought a top 8 finish to be a great season because I don't rate this squad at all. For much of the same reasons as yourself, the players lauded as our key instigators are average, Maddison being a really good example, Solanke being another. Likewise i see 15th-17th as being a terrible one because I think we are indeed better than that.

Frank has been poor in multiple ways from the way he's used Xavi initially to the defensive double pivot etc etc. but then I look at these players and I hand on heart just don't see much in terms of quality. A top 10 season just feels about right for what we have imo.

Raziel said:
Honestly nonsense, my expectations are we beat Wolves at home, we beat Brentford home and away, we beat this dogbrick forest side, we beat this dogbrick version of Bournemouth, we beat Sunderland home and away, we beat Fulham at home.

You will never get perfect results but convert 2-3 of those results (still brick the bed on 4) and we would be in a position aligned with your "unrealistic" expectations.

Our average position over 20+ years is 5.x on table, outside of last year, the worst result was one 12th and one 8th IIRC, last year is meant to be a blip.

The problem is this manager thinks exactly likely your post, no ambition and fear at sides we must expect to win against.
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If we had won all the games you suggested we'd be 2nd and you think you're expectations are not too high? You're delusional. 🤣
 
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Bishop said:
You're somewhere near where I am. At the start of the season I would have thought a top 8 finish to be a great season because I don't rate this squad at all. For much of the same reasons as yourself, the players lauded as our key instigators are average, Maddison being a really good example, Solanke being another. Likewise i see 15th-17th as being a terrible one because I think we are indeed better than that.

Frank has been poor in multiple ways from the way he's used Xavi initially to the defensive double pivot etc etc. but then I look at these players and I hand on heart just don't see much in terms of quality. A top 10 season just feels about right for what we have imo.


If we had won all the games you suggested we'd be 2nd and you think you're expectations are not too high? You're delusional. 🤣
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Your expectation was Europa League qualification.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Your expectation was Europa League qualification.
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The point remains that these players just aren't very good and (at least, in my opinion) nowhere near good enough to get into the Top 6. A different manager could get more out of this squad, if only because the gap in terms of philosophies with Postecoglou is far too wide, but there's no way that hypothetical manager would have us compete for anything.

It's the miserable football on display that's a worry. In terms of results, a different manager may have earned a few more points but incredible as it may sound, we're only six points off 5th.
 
Finney Is Back said:
That is what you voted for in the expectations poll (you were a bit more optimistic than me - I went top 8).
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I was naively optimistic that we would push for CL LOL...I will say my gut said Europa but I simply would not allow common sense expectation to rule over heart and 'want'...
 
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