Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[ricky2tricky4city]

Don’t disagree at all
I don’t think any club keeps a manager that long with any aspirations
They have stuck with him and backed him arguably more than any manager has ever been backed

Its potentially a similar position at United.
Amorin definitely on the wobble...but they might push thru and reap a reward.

So hard to know if yoy are backing the right horse.

Fwiw I would have bombed Arteta at some point...I still think he's a dingdong.
And that could have been a wrong decision (I say could, as he's still trophyless)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Its potentially a similar position at United.
Amorin definitely on the wobble...but they might push thru and reap a reward.

So hard to know if yoy are backing the right horse.

Fwiw I would have bombed Arteta at some point...I still think he's a dingdong.
And that could have been a wrong decision (I say could, as he's still trophyless)

Agree on all counts
I do think that most managers with backing and time can deliver success at any high level club
Clubs having patience and money to burn are key
That doesn’t undermine what some have done but they have to get it over the line

 

[glorygloryeze]

Occasionally last night we got into middle third positions and then it just ended up back at a CH or even Vicario.

I'm sure in a video match debrief they could just be pointing out options of alternative (progressive) passes...so players at least believe they exist...and if they don't, the next thing you show is potential recipients where they could be or could move to.

Yeah, how often we ended up passing backwards was and has been so fustrating.
We often have lack of movement in the forward areas OR we have good movement but are so blind not to then try and pass to them.
Johnson was getting so frustrated when he'd make runs into space only for whoever was on the ball to not make the pass..

You can see why we have a poor home record as i think we can more likely get away with it away from home because the onus is on the home team to attack/go forwards. Eventually the constant backwards passing will catch up with us away from home as well.

Here's hoping that last minute saving grace from Romero is the turning point and we go and win on Saturday (we HAVE to imo)

 

[harr1984]

As long as you're prepared to have some (perhaps quite a lot of) poor results that is fine.... PL teams will absolutely exploit poor positioning, especially through the centre of the pitch.

Well to be fair he's started 6 of our 14 league games and we've only lost one of them (Small sample size of course).

He's not going to learn sitting on the bench, and hopefully the coaching will be doing something about it at the same time. I'm more concerned about our lack of football than results at the moment, I don't envisage us being much worse off than 11th come the end of the season with Bergvall being given real opportunity ....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Well to be fair he's started 6 of our 14 league games and we've only lost one of them (Small sample size of course).

He's not going to learn sitting on the bench, and hopefully the coaching will be doing something about it at the same time. I'm more concerned about our lack of football than results at the moment, I don't envisage us being much worse off than 11th come the end of the season with Bergvall being given real opportunity ....

11th would see the manager sacked unless the new decisions makers are very different from the old ones.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

I think it's fairly obvious to everyone that we only have one way of moving the ball forward, and that's by the running with it. Even if we had attackers with good off the ball movement, they'd be wasted in this team, as we don't have the skills to play off of that. That's why our play is so one-dimensional at the moment - we desperately lack any passing ability, bar for Romero and Porro to an extent.

I don't think there's any short-term fix for that. Some set-ups are doomed to fail (Arsenal away), but we're not pulling up any trees in the league as long as we don't add some variety to our squad, particularly in centre midfield.

 

[braineclipse]

Yeah, playing through the opposition press is a major issue and has been a consistent with our teams as far back as Mourinho and the last throes of Pochettinos time.

It has been mostly a problem since then I agree. Even at our best under Pochettino it was still an issue at times.

We have had periods since then were we have been better at it. At first under Ange, after that hit and miss, but sometimes it was there. Under Conte for a while we were quite good at it. Obviously under Conte and Mourinho we had the magic of Kane to help us out in that regard.

Has been a problem for long time. And it's genuinely a tough thing to do well (if it wasn't teams wouldn't press high as much). But a difference of degrees. So far under Frank is about as bad as it's been. And for me at least I struggle to see what we're even trying to do up against a high press to improve how we play in those phases.

 

[billyiddo]

It has been mostly a problem since then I agree. Even at our best under Pochettino it was still an issue at times.

We have had periods since then were we have been better at it. At first under Ange, after that hit and miss, but sometimes it was there. Under Conte for a while we were quite good at it. Obviously under Conte and Mourinho we had the magic of Kane to help us out in that regard.

Has been a problem for long time. And it's genuinely a tough thing to do well (if it wasn't teams wouldn't press high as much). But a difference of degrees. So far under Frank is about as bad as it's been. And for me at least I struggle to see what we're even trying to do up against a high press to improve how we play in those phases.

I think under Ange we worked around the issue via the tactics eg having so many players pushed up - a solution maybe for this particular issue but it opened up problems elsewhere. Beginning part of 23/24 Maddison was dropping deep and getting on the ball which was probably our best period of playing through teams for years.

Under Conte Nuno and Mourinho turgid was the most commonly used phrase to describe our football, this stemmed from midfield - all change from Mourinhos midfield but since Contes time we have added Palinha (not good in this regard) and Bergvall (good-ish but plenty of mistakes and caught in possession) so at best we've stood still from those turgid teams in terms of on the ball quality in midfield, from last season we are a Maddison down for the time being.

I guess that Simons will be offered up as a response but from what I have seen he us purely a final third player - someone that needs feeding in that area as opposed to someone who will get on the ball deep and start pulling strings from further back.

 

[braineclipse]

I think under Ange we worked around the issue via the tactics eg having so many players pushed up - a solution maybe for this particular issue but it opened up problems elsewhere. Beginning part of 23/24 Maddison was dropping deep and getting on the ball which was probably our best period of playing through teams for years.

Under Conte Nuno and Mourinho turgid was the most commonly used phrase to describe our football, this stemmed from midfield - all change from Mourinhos midfield but since Contes time we have added Palinha (not good in this regard) and Bergvall (good-ish but plenty of mistakes and caught in possession) so at best we've stood still from those turgid teams in terms of on the ball quality in midfield, from last season we are a Maddison down for the time being

I agree that the players we have and have available is a significant part of the issue.

I genuinely think a really good deep playmaker would make a big difference.

But it's also the system Frank has chosen and worked on. I'm not saying we have to go full Ange here. But there's a lot of room between Ange style "push a lot of players up" and what we're seeing now.

 

[Muttley]

I think a context is needed. We went into this game against a top side and a difficult place for us to travel to in recent times. We had come off 2 losses whereas they had back to back wins. If I take the outside-in approach and become a Toon fan for minute then what am I thinking. I'm probably feeling a pure dislikable admiration for Frank. It's one thing bringing that ugly Brentford side to St James Park and stifling the wotsits out of my team. Now, within a few months of taking a Spurs side with a soft core, he's done the same to them even though they'll believe they were the better team. They clearly were. As a Saudi Sportswashing Machine fan, I'd now be worried that the next time we play Spurs, they're gone be an even tougher proposition again. They will simply get better and better under Frank. I know as a Toon fan, I was lucky in the end to get that point. I'd also be wondering if, after 5 years, my club was moving forward or perhaps going a little sideways and backwards under Howe.

This period is clearly a time for patience with Frank. The next game will be fascinating. I think we need to be careful that we don't get too internalised to ourselves and not see the bigger picture.