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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

I am intrigued to see if he continues to set us up more like this in games where we can overpower the opposition, especially at home. I hope so, because it proves what many have been saying which is we can play this way even with the usual architects out injured. We DO have players who can.

It is no irony that Xavi had his best game yet for us, given the shape and patterns around him. It also makes a huge difference having a LB at LB; this is a transfer issue and we need to act in Jan IMO.
Copenhagen were awful. It was a relief to see us looking forward from the very first minute, so much better. But back in the Premier League it will be much more difficult, hopefully we can maintain this template against better opposition than last night.

As an aside, I thought Odobert shows what Kudus lacks - he actually releases the ball at the right time and as such we look better for it. Kudus really does need to improve that part of his game....
 
Copenhagen were awful. It was a relief to see us looking forward from the very first minute, so much better. But back in the Premier League it will be much more difficult, hopefully we can maintain this template against better opposition than last night.

As an aside, I thought Odobert shows what Kudus lacks - he actually releases the ball at the right time and as such we look better for it. Kudus really does need to improve that part of his game....

It was Odobert's best game for us IMO. Long way to go still, but very good.
 
@SissokoWasGood (BoL) I'd be interested to see what you thought about our play yesterday; not the result in itself, but the tactics, approach etc

Loved it! Thought the shape was interesting with a back 3 in possession (two different versions of it, Porro inverting and Bentancur dropping in) and to the point mentioned above, Udogie on the left helps as he was often taking up an advanced position high on the left, almost on the same line as Johnson on the right, and sharing that with Odobert.

And then the intention, the passing forwards, the half turn; the tempo, it was all there. Even when down to ten, the players had the confidence and / or the conviction and clarity to attack the spaces and get more goals. They were making runs they were just not close to making against Chelsea.

I think they felt liberated, which is why I go back to thinking a large part of the struggle before this game was confidence and players internalising and over rotating on a cautious message that has come from Frank. But I am sure the discussions since Chelsea were clarifying, I think the players know that they can try more offensive movements within Frank’s system, and I would also want Frank to trust the players more.

The interesting thing for me is this phased approach that Frank talks about. He’s always talking about adding layers, starting with a solid foundation, making sure we are solid first. I get it, and it seems logical, but I do wonder if he’s spent too much time emphasising it and didn’t move on to another phase quickly enough for the capability of the squad. I think the players believe they can do more. And the proof will be in the coming games. Can we attack the spaces that open up against United, even if we play a more reactive game than against Copenhagen? If so I’ll be happy. Ditto if we can play out when they press us, maybe by innovating between a back 3 and 4 depending on what solutions we need to find.
 
Loved it! Thought the shape was interesting with a back 3 in possession (two different versions of it, Porro inverting and Bentancur dropping in) and to the point mentioned above, Udogie on the left helps as he was often taking up an advanced position high on the left, almost on the same line as Johnson on the right, and sharing that with Odobert.

And then the intention, the passing forwards, the half turn; the tempo, it was all there. Even when down to ten, the players had the confidence and / or the conviction and clarity to attack the spaces and get more goals. They were making runs they were just not close to making against Chelsea.

I think they felt liberated, which is why I go back to thinking a large part of the struggle before this game was confidence and players internalising and over rotating on a cautious message that has come from Frank. But I am sure the discussions since Chelsea were clarifying, I think the players know that they can try more offensive movements within Frank’s system, and I would also want Frank to trust the players more.

The interesting thing for me is this phased approach that Frank talks about. He’s always talking about adding layers, starting with a solid foundation, making sure we are solid first. I get it, and it seems logical, but I do wonder if he’s spent too much time emphasising it and didn’t move on to another phase quickly enough for the capability of the squad. I think the players believe they can do more. And the proof will be in the coming games. Can we attack the spaces that open up against United, even if we play a more reactive game than against Copenhagen? If so I’ll be happy. Ditto if we can play out when they press us, maybe by innovating between a back 3 and 4 depending on what solutions we need to find.
Good post.

Personally I would be quite pleased just seeing us trying more of those things in the coming games even if we ultimately fall short. I think there will be an adjustment period to that next "layer", particularly against better opposition. But thru alternative of not doing that doesn't seem like a good one to me.
 
Good post.

Personally I would be quite pleased just seeing us trying more of those things in the coming games even if we ultimately fall short. I think there will be an adjustment period to that next "layer", particularly against better opposition. But thru alternative of not doing that doesn't seem like a good one to me.

Absolutely. As long as we compete, and try to win the game, however we actually go about it, I’ll be happy.

I’m not sure where it broke down, because against PSG even though we played a reactive game, there was a clear intention to attack at the right moments when the spaces opened up. Against Chelsea, and other games, it just wasn’t there. It was like we’d knock a sideways or backwards pass like a possession team would, as if we were going to move the unit upfield. But then actually didn’t have a possession game to speak of, so would try and get down the flanks, It was really weird.

Something, somewhere broke down. Even the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game was a pretty good performance. So it’s not as if we’ve suddenly lost it all and haven’t recovered for weeks on end. Wolves I think we failed to adjust to their half time formation change…but Chelsea was just rough. Maybe the messsging in the lead up to Chelsea was so much emphasising solidity that the squad took it the wrong way. And ultimately that’s where we need our senior players to ensure we’re still doing what is required on the pitch and showing the way for everyone else. Maybe it was a good learning for Micky as captain. And maybe his goal was a way of saying ‘I get it’ and taking on the onus of driving the team forward in response.
 
The interesting thing for me is this phased approach that Frank talks about. He’s always talking about adding layers, starting with a solid foundation, making sure we are solid first. I get it, and it seems logical, but I do wonder if he’s spent too much time emphasising it and didn’t move on to another phase quickly enough for the capability of the squad.
I think @Bedfordspurs made an interesting point the other day...it's worth noting that he never had to deal with Europe once at Brentford. Europe (these days) will fill in all your midweeks Inc prep and travel.
He's an experienced coach...but delivering your culture, tactics, layers, levels with no midweeks is a new experience and fresh challenge for him.
 
I think @Bedfordspurs made an interesting point the other day...it's worth noting that he never had to deal with Europe once at Brentford. Europe (these days) will fill in all your midweeks Inc prep and travel.
He's an experienced coach...but delivering your culture, tactics, layers, levels with no midweeks is a new experience and fresh challenge for him.
Yep
And also losing some of your coaches for international duty doesn’t help
 
Absolutely. As long as we compete, and try to win the game, however we actually go about it, I’ll be happy.

I’m not sure where it broke down, because against PSG even though we played a reactive game, there was a clear intention to attack at the right moments when the spaces opened up. Against Chelsea, and other games, it just wasn’t there. It was like we’d knock a sideways or backwards pass like a possession team would, as if we were going to move the unit upfield. But then actually didn’t have a possession game to speak of, so would try and get down the flanks, It was really weird.

Something, somewhere broke down. Even the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game was a pretty good performance. So it’s not as if we’ve suddenly lost it all and haven’t recovered for weeks on end. Wolves I think we failed to adjust to their half time formation change…but Chelsea was just rough. Maybe the messsging in the lead up to Chelsea was so much emphasising solidity that the squad took it the wrong way. And ultimately that’s where we need our senior players to ensure we’re still doing what is required on the pitch and showing the way for everyone else. Maybe it was a good learning for Micky as captain. And maybe his goal was a way of saying ‘I get it’ and taking on the onus of driving the team forward in response.
I think a lot of our good attacking in those games you mentioned came as a result of turnovers rather than our play against a settled team. May just be my memory though. PSG were also way off their best imo.
 
I think a lot of our good attacking in those games you mentioned came as a result of turnovers rather than our play against a settled team. May just be my memory though. PSG were also way off their best imo.
I agree. But what I thought was weird about Chelsea was that we’d win the ball, then pass back. As opposed to win the ball and attack the space.

Passing back suggests we’re doing a high possession team thing, getting the unit up the pitch. Resting with the ball etc. but it was this bizarre spectacle of a really slow tempo and zero intention to penetrate through the lines.

That’s why I land on it not being intentional. I think Frank has always wanted us to attack the spaces. But I think the players over rotated on solidity to the point we lost any offensive threat whatsoever.
 
Loved it! Thought the shape was interesting with a back 3 in possession (two different versions of it, Porro inverting and Bentancur dropping in) and to the point mentioned above, Udogie on the left helps as he was often taking up an advanced position high on the left, almost on the same line as Johnson on the right, and sharing that with Odobert.

And then the intention, the passing forwards, the half turn; the tempo, it was all there. Even when down to ten, the players had the confidence and / or the conviction and clarity to attack the spaces and get more goals. They were making runs they were just not close to making against Chelsea.

I think they felt liberated, which is why I go back to thinking a large part of the struggle before this game was confidence and players internalising and over rotating on a cautious message that has come from Frank. But I am sure the discussions since Chelsea were clarifying, I think the players know that they can try more offensive movements within Frank’s system, and I would also want Frank to trust the players more.

The interesting thing for me is this phased approach that Frank talks about. He’s always talking about adding layers, starting with a solid foundation, making sure we are solid first. I get it, and it seems logical, but I do wonder if he’s spent too much time emphasising it and didn’t move on to another phase quickly enough for the capability of the squad. I think the players believe they can do more. And the proof will be in the coming games. Can we attack the spaces that open up against United, even if we play a more reactive game than against Copenhagen? If so I’ll be happy. Ditto if we can play out when they press us, maybe by innovating between a back 3 and 4 depending on what solutions we need to find.

This!!!
 
Chelsea are the best team we have played under Frank, they have their central midfield sorted, we won't have a harder game this season.

Yet with a bit more purpose and front-foot intent, their press was there to be beaten. Massive spaces in midfield had we played faster. Unfortunately, when Romero doesnt start we lose a dimension, ditto Destiny.
 
Yet with a bit more purpose and front-foot intent, their press was there to be beaten. Massive spaces in midfield had we played faster. Unfortunately, when Romero doesnt start we lose a dimension, ditto Destiny.

Romero is so important, both in a forward momentum sense and from a leadership perspective - and I say that as someone who was really sceptical of his appointment as captain. I was completely wrong. He’s stepped up massively.
 
Romero is so important, both in a forward momentum sense and from a leadership perspective - and I say that as someone who was really sceptical of his appointment as captain. I was completely wrong. He’s stepped up massively.

His partnership with Ven de Ven is incredible...I look back and we've had a few really excellent CB pairings. This might well be the best of them. I think they're better than Verts & Toby (it's a tough one but their creativity is insane for CBs)...
 
His partnership with Ven de Ven is incredible...I look back and we've had a few really excellent CB pairings. This might well be the best of them. I think they're better than Verts & Toby (it's a tough one but their creativity is insane for CBs)...
I think they may have the potential to be.
I think that the experience of Toby & Jan, their experience and obvious partnership, made me more confident in their defensive solidity than I currently am with Mickey and Cristian. However, sustained games together will grow their relationship and Mickey is still young and can develop more. So I can see the possibility of them surpassing our Dutch alumni.
 
His partnership with Ven de Ven is incredible...I look back and we've had a few really excellent CB pairings. This might well be the best of them. I think they're better than Verts & Toby (it's a tough one but their creativity is insane for CBs)...

I think they are a long way off Toby and Verts myself.

I’d like to see Danso and Romero as a pair too.
 
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