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Daniel Levy - Former Chairman

metalgear said:
still no message from levy? so strange
doesn't seem like he is in the mood to share his feelings then
considering that video interview recently that appeared he was firmly entrenched in the club's future, it feels like a sudden falling out of sorts.

maybe the banning of that fan for his social media comments, perhaps the very last minute nature of our dealings (and kolo possibly without a buy option), missing out on MGW and Eze. Whatever it was, winning Europa Cup wasn't significant enough.
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He'll be under contract, and being paid still. He won't be able to spill the beans, and it is not his style either.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Yeah, I would hope that they think and recognise the extraordinary achievement up until 2019, and then I would understand why they’d feel there hasn’t been as much of a sure hand since then. I don’t think it’s about fairness or recognition, it’s just about who is right to take it forward. I think DL was exceptional when the task was about making us as competitive as possible while building world class infrastructure, and doing it all in a sustainable way. I just never saw how that then translated to the next phase - getting us as competitive as Liverpool and Arsenal. There is no reason why we can’t be building towards that.

I remember a story around the time he let a Commercial Director go. It was along the lines of her feeling that the targets set were crazy high, unrealistic etc. And I think that’s how he got things done in business, he’d have crazy exacting standards, but he never asked anyone to work harder or achieve more than he would in his role. He walked the walk, and was capable of executing to an extraordinary level himself. So he expected that of others.

And I think he probably expected to be able to apply that similar playbook to the football side. In terms of expecting someone to achieve extraordinary things with fewer resources. As if it was just about pushing harder, trying to extract more. And it clearly doesn’t work like that on the football side. It’s about chemistry, the right sort of alchemy coming together. And letting Poch go was where my trust in DL to take us forward broke down for me. Because he actually had the guy that brought us an extraordinary achievement, and consistency, with fewer resources. And then he saw the results slide, so in DL’s mind I can see where he thinks he has to make a change. But I don’t think he ever got why Poch was successful in the first place. And we went on a 4 year journey of thrashing around trying to recover from that bad decision I think.

I’m just not sure with DL in charge we would have ever leveraged our increased resources in the right way. I just think he was wired differently, and it made him suited to a prior phase of our club, not the one we would be moving into if we truly wanted to compete. It requires more risk taking, it requires not just trying to squeeze everything from limited resources. Or every negotiation. It requires more flexibility and a belief in a sporting ideal. Not a rigid view of expected results. I think that’s what did for him in the end, so I understand why the Lewis’s made the move.
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I think you're denigrating what was and romanticising what might be tbh. Not massively but more in an expectation that things could be very different.

To play family fortunes for a minute....what would move us higher in the league and closer to cups?
Top answer by a some way ....more money.
Then followed by ...the big teams having an off season.

DL has tried things and some (with hindsight) have not worked 'Win now' manager (ok maybe a bit of foresight with that one:)). But since Paratici and Lange have been on board, most would say our transfer work and strategy has been very good. I'm not sure if selling players is DLs fault or a market problem?. I think the low wage ratio level is logically partly because of the stage of squad cycle we are on. Transfer spend has been good, partly helped by the lower wages as it all comes out of our finite funds.

Loads of the in detail of 'how we do (or did) business' is hard to really comment on as we just don't know. Whether there's more to be leveraged there is guesswork, and even if there is, it's family fortunes top answers 1 and 2 that really shift the needle.

Ive said before that if we are smarter and things come together, department wise, recruitment wise and probably (to some degree) lucking out with a excellent manager (like Poch), we can have a moment knocking at the door. Perhaps the beginnings of that is already happening right now with TF?
 
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Thought it interesting to see the detail of his job. How Levy managed these key things. What was the outcome? Reportedly we got £16-17m from Inter.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think you're denigrating what was and romanticising what might be tbh. Not massively but more in an expectation that things could be very different.

To play family fortunes for a minute....what would move us higher in the league and closer to cups?
Top answer by a some way ....more money.
Then followed by ...the big teams having an off season.

DL has tried things and some (with hindsight) have not worked 'Win now' manager (ok maybe a bit of foresight with that one:)). But since Paratici and Lange have been on board, most would say our transfer work and strategy has been very good. I'm not sure if selling players is DLs fault or a market problem?. I think the low wage ratio level is logically partly because of the stage of squad cycle we are on. Transfer spend has been good, partly helped by the lower wages as it all comes out of our finite funds.

Loads of the in detail of 'how we do (or did) business' is hard to really comment on as we just don't know. Whether there's more to be leveraged there is guesswork, and even if there is, it's top answers 1 and 2 that really shift the needle.

Ive said before that if we are smarter and things come together, department wise, recruitment wise and probably (to some degree) lucking out with a excellent manager (like Poch), we can have a moment knocking at the door. Perhaps the beginnings of that is already happening right now with TF?
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We need to spend more on wages, then when the players don't hit the mark for whatever reason we can't move them on because no one will pay their wages.
It happens at every club, some can take the hit, we can't.
Who was the midfielder Liverpool signed, spent a fortune on, was supposed to be the missing piece, barely played, quickly dropped, never heard of again. Keita?
City, Chelsea and utd are littered with them.
Tottenham don't have that money to throw around.
Despite what we are told there is no easy answer for clubs at our level.
 
SpurMeUp said:
So much conjecture on here, both from those who want to paint Levy as failing (clearly he wasn't), and from those who want to paint Levy as a Saint.
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Yet no one on here has painted him as a saint.

With all the other stuff people are saying about the Lewis family, I think most people should be taking a watching brief, these are still the same owners we have had for the last 25 year, they will get my backing 100% to do what they have said they want to do, lets now see if they do it or if this is all "new dawn" PR
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yet no one on here has painted him as a saint.
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Levy didn't want to sell to an evil owner, and protected the clubs best interests. Sounds quite saintly to me. All conjecture. It is possible, but so is the converse: Levy wanted to sell to Amanda. Lewis' wanted to make good and realise their dads purchase to make Spurs great again.

Grays_1890 said:
With all the other stuff people are saying about the Lewis family, I think most people should be taking a watching brief, these are still the same owners we have had for the last 25 year, they will get my backing 100% to do what they have said they want to do, lets now see if they do it or if this is all "new dawn" PR
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Totally. To those worried that things will be torn up, there won't be much difference. And that is a good thing. Organisations should evolve. Not be totally rebuilt. Levy left a strong foundation, what will the next chapter be, building upon it?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Considering its par for his course as Chairman, I think people are applying logic, not appointing sainthoods

People can argue what they like till the cows come home, but he always had the clubs interests above much else
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That's right. Levy was never a PR machine for himself, so the interviews he did give I will take at face value.

Furthermore, lots of people inside football have said he is honest and straightforward, and many of those people who have said that would have a good reason not to.

That's solid evidence from the horses mouth and non bias witnesses, not conjecture.
 
glasgowspur said:
We need to spend more on wages, then when the players don't hit the mark for whatever reason we can't move them on because no one will pay their wages.
It happens at every club, some can take the hit, we can't.
Who was the midfielder Liverpool signed, spent a fortune on, was supposed to be the missing piece, barely played, quickly dropped, never heard of again. Keita?
City, Chelsea and utd are littered with them.
Tottenham don't have that money to throw around.
Despite what we are told there is no easy answer for clubs at our level.
Click to expand...
It's a balancing act for sure. How many duds can you swallow?

But perhaps ours is the logical approach to mitigate risk?
Eg Yes we will pay someone 200-300k a week but it'll be to someone like Bergvall someone we know and someone proven to be the real deal.

I think also if we are, at any moment, close to breaking thru the door (eg like back in a position we were with Poch), we would buy a ready baked player for the transfer fee and wages required this time round. No different to what the Goons have done. And that would be because we would be at the stage of the cycle where we are looking to raise the ceiling ONLY. So maybe just two players in, one for 100m, one for 50m.
 
SpurMeUp said:

Thought it interesting to see the detail of his job. How Levy managed these key things. What was the outcome? Reportedly we got £16-17m from Inter.
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Basically he trying to be fair to all sides BUT he wants that reflected by others
ie see it from everyone's position.

I wonder how these type of meetings play out with the Forest chairman?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Basically he trying to be fair to all sides BUT he wants that reflected by others
ie see it from everyone's position.

I wonder how these type of meetings play out with the Forest chairman?
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Funny you should mention marinakis, as I was thinking DLs approach contrasts most with him. Total opposits. Whilst no one wants that thug running their club, in terms of style and approach, I think there is something interesting here.

At times you want a Chairman who isn't laid back. Who is balls out determined to win now at all cost. Levy was never that. For example, you say to Eriksen - we're going forwards and have a plan to win. We're investing x y z, and we are not letting you go! Now that was just an example, maybe we wanted to let him go. It is more about having a chairmen who can inspire the organisation that we are going forward and will win at all costs. Rather than keeping everyone happy.

It is interesting. I am interviewing people for an MD role now myself. And the sytle and approach of the individual really sets the tone for the organisation.
 
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ricky2tricky4city said:
It's a balancing act for sure. How many duds can you swallow?

But perhaps ours is the logical approach to mitigate risk?
Eg Yes we will pay someone 200-300k a week but it'll be to someone like Bergvall someone we know and someone proven to be the real deal.

I think also if we are, at any moment, close to breaking thru the door (eg like back in a position we were with Poch), we would buy a ready baked player for the transfer fee and wages required this time round. No different to what the Goons have done. And that would be because we would be at the stage of the cycle where we are looking to raise the ceiling ONLY. So maybe just two players in, one for 100m, one for 50m.
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We've been willing to spend 100m+ every season for a while now. See no reasons to think that won't be spent only on ceiling raisers if those are the only needs in the squad and seen as the best way to improve the team.

Like we essentially did this season. Only Katai as a young unproven player other than Tel already on loan. Then Kudus and Simons permanently and Palhinha and Kolo Muani on loan deals. Ceiling raisers all 4 imo. And from what I understand Simons in particular is on solid wages too?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Funny you should mention marinakis, as I was thinking DLs approach contrasts most with him. Total opposits. Whilst no one wants that thug running their club, in terms of style and approach, I think there is something interesting here.

At times you want a Chairman who isn't laid back. Who is balls out determined to win now at all cost. Levy was never that. For example, you say to Eriksen - we're going forwards and have a plan to win. We're investing x y z, and we are not letting you go! Now that was just an example, maybe we wanted to let him go. It is more about having a chairmen who can inspire the organisation that we are going forward and will win at all costs. Rather than keeping everyone happy.

It is interesting. I am interviewing people for an MD role now myself. And the sytle and approach of the individual really sets the tone for the organisation.
Click to expand...

eriksen had already checked out by then, no amount of Rah Rah would have him change his mind… if he was locked in a sound proofed room with the Forest Chairman maybe that changes
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think you're denigrating what was and romanticising what might be tbh. Not massively but more in an expectation that things could be very different.

To play family fortunes for a minute....what would move us higher in the league and closer to cups?
Top answer by a some way ....more money.
Then followed by ...the big teams having an off season.

DL has tried things and some (with hindsight) have not worked 'Win now' manager (ok maybe a bit of foresight with that one:)). But since Paratici and Lange have been on board, most would say our transfer work and strategy has been very good. I'm not sure if selling players is DLs fault or a market problem?. I think the low wage ratio level is logically partly because of the stage of squad cycle we are on. Transfer spend has been good, partly helped by the lower wages as it all comes out of our finite funds.

Loads of the in detail of 'how we do (or did) business' is hard to really comment on as we just don't know. Whether there's more to be leveraged there is guesswork, and even if there is, it's family fortunes top answers 1 and 2 that really shift the needle.

Ive said before that if we are smarter and things come together, department wise, recruitment wise and probably (to some degree) lucking out with a excellent manager (like Poch), we can have a moment knocking at the door. Perhaps the beginnings of that is already happening right now with TF?
Click to expand...

I’m not sure I really disagree with you. It’s just my opinion that sacking Poch was a bad decision. DL even said ‘time will tell if it’s the right decision’ and I don’t think it was. But I agree that since 2023 we’ve been back on a good path again, we’ve actually put in place the right football strategy for a club with our constraints. But I think we lost 4 years of progress by not trusting Poch more.

So that’s all I mean - I think that decision was the one where I lost trust in DL being the guy to help us continue to progress. But before that I thought he was exceptional. Just my opinion. And now I don’t know whether his removal was because the Lewis’s also think he wasn’t the guy to help us progress. Or whether they just wanted him out to widen their pool of buyers.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Funny you should mention marinakis, as I was thinking DLs approach contrasts most with him. Total opposits. Whilst no one wants that thug running their club, in terms of style and approach, I think there is something interesting here.

At times you want a Chairman who isn't laid back. Who is balls out determined to win now at all cost. Levy was never that. For example, you say to Eriksen - we're going forwards and have a plan to win. We're investing x y z, and we are not letting you go! Now that was just an example, maybe we wanted to let him go. It is more about having a chairmen who can inspire the organisation that we are going forward and will win at all costs. Rather than keeping everyone happy.

It is interesting. I am interviewing people for an MD role now myself. And the sytle and approach of the individual really sets the tone for the organisation.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. It’s unarguable that he has helped progress Forest. He has done it in a completely different way to how DL does it. But it shows that different approaches can work.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Considering its par for his course as Chairman, I think people are applying logic, not appointing sainthoods

People can argue what they like till the cows come home, but he always had the clubs interests above much else
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Agreed. Certainly when I made the point about which owners were acceptable to DL I wasn’t trying to paint him as anything, rather have a dispassionate discussion about what might be the Lewis’s reasons for removing him. The logic suggests they want to maximise their investment. The idea that after 25 years they suddenly care about ‘more success, more often’ when they placed the very constraints on DL would be painting them as saintly.
 
glasgowspur said:
City owners have pumped a lot of money into the community, a nation state buying spurs could well do the same.
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I don’t disagree. Maybe in the hypothetical that DL cared about what ‘type’ of owner buys the club, he might be more worried about what happened if that owner decided to pull the plug? Maybe he thinks that an owner who still saw the club as an investment that needed to return a profit would be more likely to continue to run the club in something of a sustainable manner, versus a nation state or oil baron who cared more about the reputational gains?
 
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