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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 62 34.1%

  • Out

    Votes: 120 65.9%
  • Total voters
    182
kb 1984 said:
I am an Ange fan & will support him til the board decide otherwise I will then support the next guy

If you can look at our league position & say that is acceptable then fair enough but many supporters find it unacceptable & want him gone based on our league form winning the Europa doesn't change that

i really wanted him to be successful but sadly I don't think he has done enough to warrant keeping him. If any of the bottom 3 had been better we would be fudged & fighting for our lives.

Even after writing that a piece of me thinks Maybe give him one more year to prove everyone wrong
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Isnt that hopeless optismism at the level of 'i know my wife has had 12 affairs, but i know she still loves me and im sure that one will be the last'?
 
thfcsteff said:
Carl,

First off, please don't assume anything on my behalf. I don't know you; how could I judge you as a person? It would be foolish. The only thing I know about you as a person is that you watched a match with your child; that sounds pretty great to me. I don't agree with your take/opinions on a lot of Spurs stuff, but that's OK, it is what it is.

I will answer your questions honestly.
IMO, anyone who engages in forums has a certain degree of narcissism/needing their opinion heard/expressed. All good, it's a human trait IMO, one that most of us manage to keep it in it's balance.
I am a writer, photographer, and podcaster by trade who works with a very high profile act. My nature has always been to write. I've written since I was 15 and first got into the music press. So it's in my blood to write and share my opinion on things.

I have gone over land and sea for this club too many times. Despite living in the US for a long time, I still get back for several matches a season. I run a supporters club. I co-do our pod with the mighty Milo and Gareth (Ricky too for some time).

One thing. Opinions are great things. Thankfully we all have them, and most of us share them judiciously. My feeling has always been that just because you have one, it doesn't mean you have to share it all the time. And when it comes to discussing opinions, I think it's important to do that -discuss them.

Finally, there are many factors in my life which have led to these days. My daughter has ongoing mental health issues. My dog is nearly 14, going strong but still at the business end of things. I have less tolerance for travel than I used to, simply because my work has required me to travel a lot (still does) since I started working 42 years ago, so I like being home. I saw us win in '84. I was at the CL Final. So in European terms, I've done OK...another nagging aspect is the prospect of another 2019. That day broke me.

So I come here for many reasons which I hope are clear. Perhaps I feel it is important to counter negativity? Perhaps because I have been a part of this forum for a long, long time, I feel it is important not to walk away and disappear?
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Weird take of narcism being the reason people come on here. We're spurs fans we like talking about spurs and football in general. We do it in the pub, we do at work, we do it in here. It's a semi form of entertainment. Something to do when we're bored. I don't see that as narcissistic.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Isnt that hopeless optismism at the level of 'i know my wife has had 12 affairs, but i know she still loves me and im sure that one will be the last'?
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I did say he hasn't done enough to keep his job a piece of me say 5 percent wants him to stay & prove people wrong but that doesn't keep him in a job

I will support him him until the board says otherwise because he is our manager just like I have supported every other manager except 1 until the board sack them then I support the next guy
 
kb 1984 said:
I am an Ange fan & will support him til the board decide otherwise I will then support the next guy

If you can look at our league position & say that is acceptable then fair enough but many supporters find it unacceptable & want him gone based on our league form winning the Europa doesn't change that

i really wanted him to be successful but sadly I don't think he has done enough to warrant keeping him. If any of the bottom 3 had been better we would be fudged & fighting for our lives.

Even after writing that a piece of me thinks Maybe give him one more year to prove everyone wrong
Click to expand...

The League form is absolutely not acceptable but there are some mitigating circumstances. Ange is to blame for a large part of it but I don't believe he's to blame for all of it.

If we get the trophy monkey off our back it gives us a chance to breath and to really push on with what is so clearly the plan: buy young talent and develop them over time, whilst changing the culture at the club from meme-punching bags to a team on the rise.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But if the 'but well' was it was our worst league season since 1912 and we only didnt get relegated because there were 3 mega brick teams, that's a plenty big enough 'but'.
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For some, yes, absolutely. Many can't look past the league form and that's understandable. But it does seem like many people (not just on here, across the broader Spurs-supporter landscape) are going to deny themselves any possible joy of a Europa League win because the league form has been so bad. I think there's a large element of it being very personal with Ange. We won 3-1 in a European cup semi final and yet there were still "get out of my club you fat clam" comments written on here.
 
tommysvr said:
For some, yes, absolutely. Many can't look past the league form and that's understandable. But it does seem like many people (not just on here, across the broader Spurs-supporter landscape) are going to deny themselves any possible joy of a Europa League win because the league form has been so bad. I think there's a large element of it being very personal with Ange. We won 3-1 in a European cup semi final and yet there were still "get out of my club you fat clam" comments written on here.
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That's what happens with toxic leadership. Just look what happened to the whole UK with Liz Truss.

I guess the ideal situation now is that Ange gets a minor illness Eddie Howe style, which gives Mason the reins for these two final games. A long shot i know.
 
tommysvr said:
If we get the trophy monkey off our back it gives us a chance to breath and to really push on with what is so clearly the plan: buy young talent and develop them over time, whilst changing the culture at the club from meme-punching bags to a team on the rise.
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Depends how much Ange contributes to said plan.
If it's just tactics, training methods, man management then we can swap him out if required
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's not dumb. It how organisations should work. Decisions aren't (should not be) based around 1 or 2 results.
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I see a Europa League win as potentially transformational for the club. It’s not just winning a few games and collecting a trophy. It’s much greater than that.

We’ve gone through 7 managers since we last one a trophy, I don’t think it’s too controversial to allow the one that finally wins something a bit more time to build.
 
It could be transformational for the club in the sense that it gets the monkey off our back but I don't think Ange is suddenly going to learn how to set a team up to play in the PL off the back of winning a tournament we have been favourites for from the outset
 
tommysvr said:
I see a Europa League win as potentially transformational for the club. It’s not just winning a few games and collecting a trophy. It’s much greater than that.

We’ve gone through 7 managers since we last one a trophy, I don’t think it’s too controversial to allow the one that finally wins something a bit more time to build.
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I'd love to give him another chance but I must admit i've never been one of those 'a trophy at any cost' type of people. For me, it is and always has been the league form that matters most as it is a true reflection of your season, however good or bad that has been. If Ange had shown some more adaptability, been more proactive in his setup and just generally looked a little bit more tactically astute in the league and over the course of a period of games then for me those would have been some green shoots that suggested a possible stronger future, alas we've seen the very opposite, hes gotten more entrenched into his system without seeming to have a way to make it actually work.

The main reason I don't want him back for next season is largely that I just have no belief that he is either A. willing and able to adapt his system to the constraints and realities of the quality of player he has at Spurs and B. I do not believe we are again, capable or willing to purchase the calibre of player he needs. Right now the club can't employ and support an idealist, we need a realist. Someone who can make the best use of the players they have available to them in an offensive and defensive standpoint and thats where Ange has failed miserably and has shown no signs of being able to change. It just feels like if he were given the start of the next season we will just be relieving him of the job at some point in the short term next season anyway.
 
Bishop said:
I'd love to give him another chance but I must admit i've never been one of those 'a trophy at any cost' type of people. For me, it is and always has been the league form that matters most as it is a true reflection of your season, however good or bad that has been. If Ange had shown some more adaptability, been more proactive in his setup and just generally looked a little bit more tactically astute in the league and over the course of a period of games then for me those would have been some green shoots that suggested a possible stronger future, alas we've seen the very opposite, hes gotten more entrenched into his system without seeming to have a way to make it actually work.

The main reason I don't want him back for next season is largely that I just have no belief that he is either A. willing and able to adapt his system to the constraints and realities of the quality of player he has at Spurs and B. I do not believe we are again, capable or willing to purchase the calibre of player he needs. Right now the club can't employ and support an idealist, we need a realist. Someone who can make the best use of the players they have available to them in an offensive and defensive standpoint and thats where Ange has failed miserably and has shown no signs of being able to change. It just feels like if he were given the start of the next season we will just be relieving him of the job at some point in the short term next season anyway.
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I don't agree with it but I understand what you're saying. I think he's changed a lot, it's just that the results have masked that. Liverpool away in the cup I think he setup in a similar way to Frankfurt away. But when you still lose 4-0 it's hard for people to look past the result. The injuries and rotation in the squad to manage players' minutes and the Europa League since has also had an undeniable impact. No, not to the extent that our performances and results have shown, but an impact nonetheless.

I would only give him until November. If there's no improvement by then, he would go. I understand people might think it's pointless, he's clueless and never going to work in the Premier League. I've got a much higher opinion of him -- clearly, given I identified him as a potential Spurs manager in 2019.

November is not a huge risk to the season, especially for where the club is. And it's not like there's any standout candidates out there. So that's my preference. Win the Europa League, give Ange one more shot to prove he can do what he's done in every other job, and if he can't thank you for becoming the 3rd manager to win a European trophy at Spurs and we move on.
 
tommysvr said:
For some, yes, absolutely. Many can't look past the league form and that's understandable. But it does seem like many people (not just on here, across the broader Spurs-supporter landscape) are going to deny themselves any possible joy of a Europa League win because the league form has been so bad. I think there's a large element of it being very personal with Ange. We won 3-1 in a European cup semi final and yet there were still "get out of my club you fat clam" comments written on here.
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Wasn’t there just one from someone who is drunk.

It’s laughable to think that spurs fans would absolutely get no joy from winning the Europa league because Ange is the manager

If we win the Europa league, hopefully I will have a ticket, find acceptably priced flights to Spain from Singapore and have the greatest night of my
Life outside of personal milestones and I’m the unlikely event that I bumped into Ange I would give him a hug and thank him for that night

I will then sober up in the morning and still want him out as a manager because he’s not good enough.

Not everything is as black and white as some might like to think
 
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