Contingency planning : When Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

[Gutter Boy]

I agree with large parts of this. Groans, clear displays of emotion, heat of the moment sort of things are to be expected. But en masse singing to the extent that it was against Chelsea is just over the top for me. The fact it happened only a few years ago with Nuno adds to it. The toxicity is growing season by season, match by match. A lot of it is justified, but I still think there is a line for what's acceptable, and as supporters we need to self-police and set that standard.

I understand it might sound idealist but what I'm describing is exactly what happens every week here in Japan.

To put it another way...I'm not especially excited to see how our players handle the atmosphere in Germany. But if I heard a Hoffenheim fan say that I'd probably laugh.

The toxicity was bad 2009-2014 also. Then it stopped 2014-2019. And then its been bad 2019-2025. I wonder what the correlation is?

 

[Raziel]

Basically, you haven't got a Scooby Doo about who will make a good manager, bit like Levy.

It's not my job, just like I really wouldn't have known if Bergvall would be a good player (but someone got that right) before we bought him

That's the difference between fans (who mostly are fudging guessing, or using hindsight) and "not a football man" who has been doing football things for 25 years ..

 

[Muttley]

I agree with large parts of this. Groans, clear displays of emotion, heat of the moment sort of things are to be expected. But en masse singing to the extent that it was against Chelsea is just over the top for me. The fact it happened only a few years ago with Nuno adds to it. The toxicity is growing season by season, match by match. A lot of it is justified, but I still think there is a line for what's acceptable, and as supporters we need to self-police and set that standard.

I understand it might sound idealist but what I'm describing is exactly what happens every week here in Japan.

To put it another way...I'm not especially excited to see how our players handle the atmosphere in Germany. But if I heard a Hoffenheim fan say that I'd probably laugh.

I do absolutely agree with pretty much all of what you've said in this line of conversation.

However, I think it is the wrong conversation. I think the better conversation is how fans / supporters should show their discontent. After all, the club doesn't exist without their hard earned money in one big football supply chain. When you think about it, there are absolutely no good avenues for fans to be disagreeable. Therefore we shouldn't be surprised that they use forums like match days to get stuck in.

The alternative of course is that Spurs fans just lower their expectations like Saints, have a giggle at their fate and sing songs about playing Coventry next season. Personally, I would hate it if we became one of those clubs. I'm really happy that we have expectations.

 

[Raziel]

I do absolutely agree with pretty much all of what you've said in this line of conversation.

However, I think it is the wrong conversation. I think the better conversation is how fans / supporters should show their discontent. After all, the club doesn't exist without their hard earned money in one big football supply chain. When you think about it, there are absolutely no good avenues for fans to be disagreeable. Therefore we shouldn't be surprised that they use forums like match days to get stuck in.

The alternative of course is that Spurs fans just lower their expectations like Saints, have a giggle at their fate and sing songs about playing Coventry next season. Personally, I would hate it if we became one of those clubs. I'm really happy that we have expectations.

As we should, as you (I think) are driving to, it's that balance

Personally
- I think players/managers should have some grace period (Nuno was the example where to me, the fans completely got it wrong)
- I don't like the spacegoating of particular players, especially when a game now starts, or they just get subbed on, and the first mistake gets booed, groans, whatever, not helpful.

People having a go at Ange now? he's had two years, 16 losses in a season is unacceptable, he and the club will have to expect noise, similarly the club has stuck with a manager that has us in 14-16th place, losing way too any games, the club will get stick.

My other gripe is the misalignment of narrative with issues
- e.g. reason Ange is failing is "we didn't spend", simply not true, Ange is the wrong manager and club should get stick for that.
- % spend on wages, we are within 4% of Madrid's revenue/wages, every club is trying to reduce wage spend. To me the issue is our wages are so low because we have so many Bergvall/Gray/Udogie/Kinsky players in the squad, so legitimate criticism is why not more Solanke, Danso, Maddison type buys or even a level higher?

 

[Finney Is Back]

As we should, as you (I think) are driving to, it's that balance

Personally
- I think players/managers should have some grace period (Nuno was the example where to me, the fans completely got it wrong)
- I don't like the spacegoating of particular players, especially when a game now starts, or they just get subbed on, and the first mistake gets booed, groans, whatever, not helpful.

People having a go at Ange now? he's had two years, 16 losses in a season is unacceptable, he and the club will have to expect noise, similarly the club has stuck with a manager that has us in 14-16th place, losing way too any games, the club will get stick.

My other gripe is the misalignment of narrative with issues
- e.g. reason Ange is failing is "we didn't spend", simply not true, Ange is the wrong manager and club should get stick for that.
- % spend on wages, we are within 4% of Madrid's revenue/wages, every club is trying to reduce wage spend. To me the issue is our wages are so low because we have so many Bergvall/Gray/Udogie/Kinsky players in the squad, so legitimate criticism is why not more Solanke, Danso, Maddison type buys or even a level higher?

lol….. ‘the fans got it wrong’

The crowd were singing we want Levy/ENIC out so Levy bought himself some peace by sacking the manager (again!)

 

[Raziel]

lol….. ‘the fans got it wrong’

The crowd were singing we want Levy/ENIC out so Levy bought himself some peace by sacking the manager (again!)

I was there mate

And the narrative was "Nuno was out of his depth", "not even on the original list" (what fudging list) and it was subs being boo'ed

Yes Levy got some stick but this revisionist idea that fans weren't going after Nuno is flimflam

 

[parklane1]

I was there mate

And the narrative was "Nuno was out of his depth", "not even on the original list" (what fudging list) and it was subs being boo'ed

Yes Levy got some stick but this revisionist idea that fans weren't going after Nuno is flimflam

Indeed.

 

[Muttley]

Personally
- I think players/managers should have some grace period (Nuno was the example where to me, the fans completely got it wrong)
- I don't like the spacegoating of particular players, especially when a game now starts, or they just get subbed on, and the first mistake gets booed, groans, whatever, not helpful.

What the Nuno showed most was player power has been rife at Spurs for a long time. The players quit on the manager and the fans naively blamed the manager. They should have been doing what I did at the time and get stuck into the senior players who let everyone down, especially the England and South Korea captains who were a disgrace.

People having a go at Ange now? he's had two years, 16 losses in a season is unacceptable, he and the club will have to expect noise, similarly the club has stuck with a manager that has us in 14-16th place, losing way too any games, the club will get stick.

.
As you say, there is enough data on Ange now for people to form opinions. The "anything but Ange" camp have tried every narrative possible to deflect from the actual football conversation required. As people know, I'm not 100% Ange out like some. I'd still like him to prove me wrong, but I am finding it incredibly difficult to get behind his approaches to how he is managing the football side of things.

My other gripe is the misalignment of narrative with issues
- e.g. reason Ange is failing is "we didn't spend", simply not true, Ange is the wrong manager and club should get stick for that.
- % spend on wages, we are within 4% of Madrid's revenue/wages, every club is trying to reduce wage spend. To me the issue is our wages are so low because we have so many Bergvall/Gray/Udogie/Kinsky players in the squad, so legitimate criticism is why not more Solanke, Danso, Maddison type buys or even a level higher?

You and I have had this conversation a lot. I don't regret one minute buying or promoting all these kids and putting them to work but I totally accept that has its trade-offs. The next phase has to be about buying the 21-25 year olds, not the 17-21 year olds. I'm looking forward to see how Joao Gomes plays against us next weekend. At 24-25 he looks a pretty good template of the player we should be buying. I'm not a fan of buy the late twenties profiles. It never works out for us.