I always said the right time would be once all of the old guard were gone. If he can make the big (correct) decision on Son then he has a clean slate to work with barring Ben Davies.
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Ange in or out?
- Thread starter Yiddo
- Start date
glasgowspur
Colin Calderwood
And mason.
Bishop
Jimmy Neighbour
Revision, Dele was already broken. His spell under Jose just confirmed it.
Mr Gogolak
Terry Yorath
I believe another important aspect is how damaged our reputation was after sacking both Mourinho and Conte. We may think whatever we want about them, but their names still command - rightly or wrongly - a lot of respect in world football. There aren't that many people who'd be willing to bet on their ability to do better. From the (admittedly very limited) noises I heard, we were on the verge of being considered a managers' graveyard.
Whoever we get next will be under the impression that they won't get the boot as soon as they hit a rough patch and will be given the time they need to steer the ship. That's not necessarily true but perceptions are an important part of football.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
He's an excellent public speaker, honestly.
Trouble is, he seems much better at that than he does at managing. Postecoglou the politician would have been a star out there in Australia - in some alternate world he's running New South Wales or Tasmania or some province like that, dragging people along through sheer belief while deflecting all the unpleasant questions he can't answer. Or maybe a successful televangelist or something.
But Postecoglou the football manager, is having his gigantic flaws exposed in real time with no answers. And his deflections only work for so long. Eventually, some journo in that room is going to grow a spine and call him out on his fluff, asking something along the lines of 'do you think your haphazard approach to pressing, lack of controlling tactics, no cover for the defense causing players to chase back, is causing all these muscle injuries you complain so much about?'
He'll gurn and glare, but I think that's the point at which the last vestiges of bravado wear off and he's exposed for what he is - mediocre, and floundering in a job way, way, way above his level.
Hard to argue against that having seen how he went in the seasons after but the first half of 18/19 season Dele was getting some really good reviews whilst playing in a deeper role (check his thread on here around that time) the whole team seemed to fall off a cliff the second half of that season - probably though a combination of Dembele/Wanyamas prolonged absence in the middle of the pitch, culmination of 3 windows without an incoming transfer and the majority of our starting XI having gone deep in the previous summers Euros (?) - things could have changed had we taken a different path to correcting our direction, but it's certainly not a certainly
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Exactly. Managers were turning us down left, right and center, and ultimately the only thing Deadweight Dan can offer his coaches is patience - he certainly can't offer them ambition.
We need Postecoglou to see out the season, imo - to prove to the rest of them that we're willing to give them time. Dump him the day after the season ends by all means, but he should get until then.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Or give Poch a 10 game bonus pre-season to evaluate and start fixing the squad, and possibly qualify for the CL
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
If he would come mate, I'd have him in tomorrow. He's the exception - even if everyone else turns us down, I think he'd still take the job just out of love for the club.
But...he's enjoying his time in the US, and that Sky interview made very clear he's focusing on their WC on home soil in 2026. This probably means another bloke between us and a Poch return.
And unless we want that other bloke to be an utterly mediocre chancer like Postecoglou, we need to give the current incumbent time, even if we all know he's done for.
Then we go into the summer in a positon to attract someone like Iraola, and then it's a no-lose situation from there - if he does well, we're laughing. If he doesn't, well, Poch will be available come summer '26.
Has he been shown to be mediocre? Or has he managed the worst injury crisis the club has had in my lifetime, got us to a semi final of one cup, a quarter final of another and brought through several highly talented youngsters, and done all of that with largely a mindset of not blaming anyone else for it?
We're now in a position where some players have been out a long time and he's not just throwing them back in, which someone who is desperate for a result and to keep his job would do - he's easing them back to make sure we don't lose them again. With Romero and VDV on the pitch we've not conceded since they returned, so that's our two £80m defenders fit, as opposed to our 18 year old midfielder, 30 year old full back turned centre half, or our 22 year old Romanian newbie. Or Tiny Danso, who is a Dawson-esque lump.
Honestly we're like a perpetual engine on here at times, there's a movement in a direction and suddenly everyone jumps on the band wagon.
This season has been dreadful, but if you think the Conte, Mourinho, Nuno, Poch or anyone else would have coped better with the situation, you're dreaming.
Legohamster
Jack Jull
at least the memes are funny
ricky2tricky4city
Dimitar Berbatov
I think the figures for transfer spend have generally been reluctantly accepted....they've moved on to wage % now....please do keep up
ricky2tricky4city
Dimitar Berbatov
It wasn't a big issue. It's was a known issue. We knew this would be the likely outcome. And if they brought good times before that outcome...that's the trade off.
glorygloryeze
Steffen Freund
I think his downturn started when he was getting overplayed by England from after the 2018 world cup and then that Pickford-induced injury in that 6-2 win at Everton. Was never fully the same/fit for a sustained period after that imo
glorygloryeze
Steffen Freund
Indeed, plus in football management circles (and football circles in general) they'll talk amongst each other about the realities of working at Spurs. Poch aside, those who work in the game in England and the bigger leagues will know much more now compared to, say, 10 years ago about how we operate.
I think that's why the 'football people' within the management structure has become more and more obscure, i.e. people who generally are less and less known about before they join, because we are having to cast nets much further afield than previously as the knowledge of how we are in reality is more known (and many more say "thanks but no thanks" when approached)
DeanoAustin
Les Ferdinand
I want a second apology in blood...
I actually don't really dislike Ange. He's annoyed me lately by confronting fans and biting at stupid stuff in press conferences but, despite my misgivings about his tactics from early on, I've always liked him, admired his principles and wanted him to succeed as I think if a manager can succeed playing balls-out attacking football, it'd be good for the game.
All I'm seeing is excuses above Steff. How has the "mess our academy was in" negatively impacted Ange any more than Jose, Nuno or Conte? He has some really good players coming through in Scarlett, Dorrington, Donley, Moore and so on. His immediate predecessors didn't really have that.
If I take when Harry came in - the whole football structure was ripped up and he came in and managed through it with a very good first season and qualified for CL in the second season. He had a lot of brick in the squad initially but he dealt with it without dragging us down. You could argue Martin Jol did the same. The player turnover in his early reign was huge. When Poch came in, he had to deal with senior players phoning it in and he had to gamble on unproven youth. When Jose came in, he had a massive injury crisis too. He dealt with it much better than Ange. When Conte came in, he inherited a club in a lot of turmoil, he had to get Kane re-engaged and he got us top 4. All these guys were dealt bricky hands to an extent and they all dealt with it much, much better than Ange.
I know what Ange was referring to in his analogy but I'm using his words to articulate my opinion on him. When you've been mediocre to poor for 18 months, there are no excuses. Not injuries, not internal politics, not club structures. At some point, you have to accept that you're responsible. You look at Sunday - as MOTD2 highlighted, that was down to a poorly coached team and unprofessionalism. Not doing the basics.
I'd have loved for Ange to succeed, I really would. I'd have been happy to hold my hands up and say I got him wrong and watch him say "told you I win things in my second year maties". But it's not going to happen. It's reached the point of untenable.
For anyone still defending Ange, I'd ask this. In the circumstances he's had to manage through, what would he have had to do to be sacked or would you have given him a pass because of the injuries no matter what? If it's not a free pass, I don't know how anyone can still be in his corner.
RigorMortis
Nicola Berti
You think those managers would have us floundering in the lower half of the table like this
And lest we forget this run of form has been ongoing more or less since those first ten games
Robspur12
Frederic Kanoute
There are a number of posters who have convinced themselves that Ange bears no responsibility for what's happened this season. Conversely, it seems, those same posters will assign any positives entirely to him.
Muttley
Terry Fenwick
LOL - it's the club that put the players through the 40-50+ games, not the country. I look at one turning point with Dele. That was the summer of 16/17. Him and the rest of the midfielders had run marathons for Poch for multiple seasons and we got 86 points in the league, our best ever finish. Our net spending in that summer was -€10m and we bought Gazzaniga, Sanchez, Aurier, Foyth, Llorente after selling Walker, Wimmer and Bentaleb for decent money. We then bought Moura in the January for €28m to make it an impressive €18m for a CL year.
It was so obvious to me in that summer that a decline would start, and to expect those midfielders to keep going at that rate was always going to end in tears. We needed to buy DM's and AM's and reduce the burden. Wanyama was broken, Winksy broken and Dembele in and out. This isn't captain hindsight as loads of fans called it at the time. This is what happened to Dele thereafter.
18/19 Hamstring strain Jan 20, 2019 Mar 9, 2019 49 days 12 Matches
18/19 Hamstring injury Dec 24, 2018 Dec 28, 2018 5 days 1 Match
18/19 Hamstring injury Sep 28, 2018 Oct 29, 2018 32 days 8 Matches
18/19 Hamstring injury Sep 8, 2018 Sep 22, 2018 15 days 4 Matches
18/19 Muscle strain Jul 4, 2018 Jul 6, 2018 3 days -
17/18 Hamstring injury Nov 2, 2017 Nov 15, 2017 14 days 3 Matches
He somehow got through the next season, which ended up with the Russia World Cup (your point). I went to Moscow and where you are somewhat right is the burden Southgate then put on Hendo, Lingard and Dele. You had Maguire calling our left wingback, Young, into mark his man in the middle, whilst him and Stones were free men. That meant Dele had to do his own job and protect the entire left hand side with Young being AWOL. Just shocking from Southgate. If the fans could see it in the stands, why couldn't he?
So I would always be tough on the way that Jose treated Dele who could have done himself a big favour and just smashed the little narcissistic bully straight on the jaw and knocked him out. Done all of us a favour. I strongly believe that the Jose-Dele relationship was part of the reason Jose lost the dressing room and the massive decline started. You could see guys like Sonny just quit on Jose on the pitch and wait patiently until he'd left the building. Hugo dropped some very strong hints in his recent book.
However, we should be clear. It wasn't Jose who broke Dele. That was Poch, with a little bit of Southgate thrown in. It was mostly Poch, and Steve Hitchen can take some of the rap for not getting his manager reinforcements in midfield. Even when he did a year prior, it was bloody Sissoko.
