Ange in or out?

[Yiddo]

Its embarrassing to watch, its not the players its the details. We have a better squad than Forest, Bournemouth, Brighton and Villa yet they are all fighting for European places, why is that? Their managers actually have a clue.

 

[superspurs]

Like many I was hoping Ange would get things going again but leaving the game yesterday it just feels inevitable doesn't it, probably has felt that way for some time now.

He'll be gone if we don't go through on Thursday.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Oh someone actually watches football and gets it.

I love Wharton at Palace but even him who I think is a diamond would suffer in our system. Hell even Rodri would, Rice to.

While it's a fairly obvious "hole" which i think contributes to our lack of shape, I'm unsure Ange believes in a holding midfielder. Seems to prefer playing Bentancur or Bissouma as the nominal deepest midfielder both of whom played most of their pre-Ange careers as an 8 (Bentancur) or even 10 (Biss). Then those players seem to have definitely license to "wander" and you get really weird situations where you end up with Maddison or Kulusevski in the defensive third trying to make a last ditch tackle while Bissouma is jogging back from the opponent's penalty area.

We have a potentially very good DM in Gray, but Ange seems very reluctant to play him in that position. Which may again be down to the fact Ange doesn't like to have one of his 3 midfielders focused on defensive cover...

 

[Muttley]

We have a potentially very good DM in Gray, but Ange seems very reluctant to play him in that position. Which may again be down to the fact Ange doesn't like to have one of his 3 midfielders focused on defensive cover...

Not sure about this. Gray had a 50 game season and this season ended up playing close to 20 consecutive games at centre half.

Right now, I think the manager is trying to get him refreshed and recharged. Because Bent's is suspended, we could easily see Gray getting minutes in midfield this week. After that, I have a feeling we'll see more of him in midfield. I can see Bissouma getting completely phased out.

 

[Daisuk]

I agree, especially this season. But I can only keep going back to my same points: Ange’s teams historically have struggled…until suddenly they don’t; injuries have robbed us of so much of that progression that we would have otherwise seen.



It’s a fair question. I said up front when I wanted him appointed that we needed at least 3 seasons to see the impact, so more time and more time with a full(ish) squad. I appreciate it’s hard when you’re watching us struggle every week, but that’s why I haven’t ridden the waves of results as much as others.

Fair enough. I do think it's a huge ask to give a coach two full seasons when both results and performances have been poor for a long time though. If we had seen some sort of progression I would perhaps be able to support that, but we have regressed, in my opinion. You can blame that on injuries, of course, but it seems more like a system flaw to me, when we keep conceding the same sort of goals and do the same mistakes in game after game.

 

[balesleftboot]

He's not wrong about the atmosphere BTW. Soon as a mistake is made the crowd are on the players backs. Very little positive noise from the crowd unless it's a derby. Can't help at all.

Look at Nuno. Crowd were on his back at ours and this translates to the pitch. Players scared to make a mistake because of the negativity in the stands so they play it safe. Now he's flying at Forest and we all wonder why.

 

[Daisuk]

He's not wrong about the atmosphere BTW. Soon as a mistake is made the crowd are on the players backs. Very little positive noise from the crowd unless it's a derby. Can't help at all.

Look at Nuno. Crowd were on his back at ours and this translates to the pitch. Players scared to make a mistake because of the negativity in the stands so they play it safe. Now he's flying at Forest and we all wonder why.

100%. I don't think our home support has been good since WHL. The club should have been smart and allocated season tickets in the south stand to people actually wanting to sing. Can't have been that hard.

 

[Mikey10]

100%. I don't think our home support has been good since WHL. The club should have been smart and allocated season tickets in the south stand to people actually wanting to sing. Can't have been that hard.

They're not interested in season ticket holders. They'll be quite happy if the ground is full of tourist fans, spending loads in the shop and at the in-stadium concession stands.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They're not interested in season ticket holders. They'll be quite happy if the ground is full of tourist fans, spending loads in the shop and at the in-stadium concession stands.

Worryingly right
It’s how the league has gone

 

[billyiddo]

Oh someone actually watches football and gets it.

I love Wharton at Palace but even him who I think is a diamond would suffer in our system. Hell even Rodri would, Rice to.

It's something I said a few times early on when 'we need to buy a proper 6' came up - he doesn't play with one and what people who are saying that line are actually advocating is a change in setup/tactics...

 

[Glenda's Legs]

They're not interested in season ticket holders. They'll be quite happy if the ground is full of tourist fans, spending loads in the shop and at the in-stadium concession stands.

If they didn’t care about Season Tickets they wouldn’t have such a high proportion of the capacity allocated to STs.
It’s guaranteed money up front and probably paints a good picture to banks and sponsors.

 

[Mikey10]

If they didn’t care about Season Tickets they wouldn’t have such a high proportion of the capacity allocated to STs.
It’s guaranteed money up front and probably paints a good picture to banks and sponsors.

If they could be sure that they could flog the seats on a week by week basis to tourist fans then they wouldn't think twice about doing away with ST holders. I'd expect to see continuing moves in that direction - including the ongoing pricing out of ordinary fans.

 

[Baleforce]

If they could be sure that they could flog the seats on a week by week basis to tourist fans then they wouldn't think twice about doing away with ST holders. I'd expect to see continuing moves in that direction - including the ongoing pricing out of ordinary fans.

Define “ordinary fan”

 

[Robspur12]

Simply put, Iraola is a lot more direct, and tends to counter more like a Conte side IMV.
Poch? We have to let it go IMO (sadly). We blew that a while back, which we both know is a factor in why we are where we are.

Respectfully I disagree Steff. For a start, Conte relies on big "centre forwards"(showing my age I know), Diego Costa, Harry Kane, and Romelu Lukaku. One of the things that has impressed me with Iraola is how his team can cope with the loss of forwards and still score goals because the way they play spreads the goals across the forwards. There have been several analyses of them this season to show that while they press very well, if there is a turnover, their double pivot of Christie and Adams are very effective at shielding the defence which means they are not as open as we are.

Iraola's team may be direct at times but as was shown by that disallowed goal, they can also build up play too. It's good to mix things up, that kind pragmatism wins matches especially with teams who on paper are not as good as their opponents. Let's be honest they were pleasing on the eye yesterday.

And their results against top of the table rivals are pretty good. Beaten Arsenal, us, Emirates Marketing Project, Forest and smashed Saudi Sportswashing Machine (who were on a great run at the time) at SJP, should have beaten Chelsea away too but for a controversial last second equaliser.

It remains to be seen if Iraola can cope with 2 games a week. But the absence of evidence to show he can is not, in itself, evidence that he can't. After all Poch did and his teams played with the same kind of high intensity.
I am not saying Iraola is definitely the answer, but he will be the closest manager to the Poch style that was successful here. So he should be considered.

 

[Robspur12]

Iraola has done well, yes. I think he looks good because he is at Bournemouth.

He has shown a consistency this season we can only dream of and beaten some of the best teams in the league. Like Poch before he came to Spurs, there is no evidence either way of whether he can scale up to managing a bigger club. But the metrics look good and if he was to be appointed he would be more experienced in the PL than Ange was at the time of his appointment.

 

[Raziel]

He has shown a consistency this season we can only dream of and beaten some of the best teams in the league. Like Poch before he came to Spurs, there is no evidence either way of whether he can scale up to managing a bigger club. But the metrics look good and if he was to be appointed he would be more experienced in the PL than Ange was at the time of his appointment.

He also has a history pre Bournemouth, his Rayo achievements are worth looking at as well.

I'm not as excited as others ref Iraola (but I wasn't excited about Harry or Poch and I was super wrong) what I do know is I don't want this. And whoever we get. I think we are back here again in 18mth cos we won't get the players the said manager wants

What players did Ange want that he didn't get? 300M in 18 months isn't backing the manager? can we stop comparing post Covid spend with Covid and pre-Stadium funding, it's clearly very different

The biggest problem I have with Iraola is that he is not everything we see on the highlights packages. At times, his style can be quite staid and boring IMO. In fact (and a few of us said this earlier) the Bournemouth goals -excellent as they were - and the syle of play today reminded us of Conte-era Spurs!!!!! Not for me thanks...

Agree with @Robspur12 here, Bournemouth has more goals than Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Forest and within 6 of City (who has Haaland), Scum, Chelsea with a good GD (one of only 7 teams with >+10 GD) in league

I think their press, and counter game is decent to watch, but it's what you like, I find the possession of possession sake styles (as example) awful but that's just me

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He has shown a consistency this season we can only dream of and beaten some of the best teams in the league. Like Poch before he came to Spurs, there is no evidence either way of whether he can scale up to managing a bigger club. But the metrics look good and if he was to be appointed he would be more experienced in the PL than Ange was at the time of his appointment.

Iraola is class so far
The poch thing is legacy fans hang onto but not a forward thinking club
Iraola is the next poch
That’s the smart move

 

[parklane1]

Well i still want him to finish the season and make any decision then, i understand that fans are angry and frustrated [ i am not overjoyed myself] but since Poch went we have had the following managers who have tried to create a winning side.

Santo [4 months], Mourinio [ 17 months], Conte [16 months] and now we are deciding if Ange should be the next one sacked.

The one sure thing that we need to do is not start moaning and groaning about managers [ we live in hope but do not hold your breath] every time we fail to finish the building of a good team. IMO. Now there are some who will blame Levy for the sackings for sure but we as fans put pressure on him to sack yet another manager.

I accept that my comments will go down like a lead ballon but we need stabilty and a LONG TERM plan. Unfortunately i see no hope of that happening. Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist i am not having a go at anyone on here but the reality is what it is.

 

[Grays_1890]

Respectfully I disagree Steff. For a start, Conte relies on big "centre forwards"(showing my age I know), Diego Costa, Harry Kane, and Romelu Lukaku. One of the things that has impressed me with Iraola is how his team can cope with the loss of forwards and still score goals because the way they play spreads the goals across the forwards. There have been several analyses of them this season to show that while they press very well, if there is a turnover, their double pivot of Christie and Adams are very effective at shielding the defence which means they are not as open as we are.

Iraola's team may be direct at times but as was shown by that disallowed goal, they can also build up play too. It's good to mix things up, that kind pragmatism wins matches especially with teams who on paper are not as good as their opponents. Let's be honest they were pleasing on the eye yesterday.

And their results against top of the table rivals are pretty good. Beaten Arsenal, us, Emirates Marketing Project, Forest and smashed Saudi Sportswashing Machine (who were on a great run at the time) at SJP, should have beaten Chelsea away too but for a controversial last second equaliser.

It remains to be seen if Iraola can cope with 2 games a week. But the absence of evidence to show he can is not, in itself, evidence that he can't. After Poch did and his teams played with the same kind of high intensity.
I am not saying Iraola is definitely the answer, but he will be the closest manager to the Poch style that was successful here. So he should be considered.

I just think he is a clever manager, they play short or clip it long to beat the press, I saw highlights last night and thats what it seemed they did to us, the goal that was chalked off for offside was certainly that, just a simple clip to beat our press and they were away. Why would you not play that way if its a certain out?

I watched them v Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the pub, rare I watch a full game of anyone else and his patched up side and attack absolutely destroyed Saudi Sportswashing Machine and like any well drilled side despite the odd moments they kept doing what they did, time after time.

My mate said yesterday even after we got the equaliser that they did not let it phase them and they kept doing what they do well......

 

[glorygloryeze]

I just think he is a clever manager, they play short or clip it long to beat the press, I saw highlights last night and thats what it seemed they did to us, the goal that was chalked off for offside was certainly that, just a simple clip to beat our press and they were away. Why would you not play that way if its a certain out?

I watched them v Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the pub, rare I watch a full game of anyone else and his patched up side and attack absolutely destroyed Saudi Sportswashing Machine and like any well drilled side despite the odd moments they kept doing what they did, time after time.

My mate said yesterday even after we got the equaliser that they did not let it phase them and they kept doing what they do well......

I watched it with a friend who doesn't support Spurs. Said he was very impressed with Bournemouth and that we looked less than the sum of our parts in comparison and that we should be delighted we got a point