Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[thfcsteff]

Interesting Gallagher wasn't able to do that for a Chelsea last season. I don't think you can ever put such weight on a single player, especially one who isn't a game breaker, one that doesn't have a any special attributes to change a game. It needed to be as said come from a number of players, whether that was in the starting lineup or from the bench.

You might argue that he was a part of Chelsea getting their brick together towards the end under Poch.

I agree, it cannot be just one player, but sometimes you need catalysts. Regardless, he would not have moved the needle either way for me, but Ange was very very keen.

 

[Bishop]

Don't know why Odobert should be considered a shortlist punt - he looks every bit an Ange style winger and from the little we have seen he looks ready to make an impact as a rotational/back up option to Son off the left. I don't recall any other LWF being targeted or linked in the summer that would suggest he was not top of the list for that position.

Maybe missing out on Neto for the right hand side freed up a bit of budget to pursue this transfer (which may have been on the back burner given Burnley are in the champ and could have waited till next summer?) maybe there was money to do both? But given they play on opposite wings i don't see them as 1st priority vs 2nd priority (or lower) for the same position, if that's the angle? - I think we'll still be in for a RWF in the coming windows.

We were linked with Doue as well before Odobert who from a fans perspective came out of nowhere. If the links were accurate they were probably both on the shortlist.

 

[billyiddo]

We were linked with Doue as well before Odobert who from a fans perspective came out of nowhere. If the links were accurate they were probably both on the shortlist.

Ah yes, forgot about Doue - in that case I can see Odobert being the alternative option there tbf as I believe they have similar profiles in terms of attributes.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Our poor performances in the prem have coincided with playing after the europa game midweek.
Thurs to sun is a killer for us. Not just tiredness but minimal prep time.

It also shows the folly of us going into the season with spare spots in our PL squad for overseas players. We could easily be hot on the heels of Liverpool right now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's an excuse as our consistency is no different from the last 2/3's of last season, when we had no midweek games at all.

We have lost our last 5 games before breaks... That's not a midweek game thing.

That is just a weak mentality and shyte attitude problem.

We have been out of Europe, what twice in 10-15 years or so...

It's an excuse.

More likely a small sample size coincidence.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Cl you have tue to sat, tue to sun, wed to sun. You have more time to prep for the next game. Also the games are usually played in major cities with airports so easier travel.

I'm not saying it to make excuse for the manager. Have been saying it for years.

And weds to sat…. As well as the reverse of that and all those you listed (so CL games soon after PL games so little time to prepare for those).

Reality is that CL or Europa and you’re preparing for 2 games per week, in the CL though you’re typically playing against better teams so need more time to prepare.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Should they?
That is less that 0.1 per shot
That’s weak IMO and shows that we limited them to very little quality chances knowing they are the team that gives up the highest quality chances

Yes they should’ve…. That’s kind of how XG works mate…. (and I suspect Emirates Marketing Project also have a few players that tend to outperform their XG as well).

 

[Lemonade Money]

It also shows the folly of us going into the season with spare spots in our PL squad for overseas players. We could easily be hot on the heels of Liverpool right now.

Between hindsight and fantasy, Levy gets a hell of a lot wrong.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It also shows the folly of us going into the season with spare spots in our PL squad for overseas players. We could easily be hot on the heels of Liverpool right now.

Im not sure what Lo Celso, Hojbjerg and Gil (or similar replacements) would have contributed if we'd held onto them. Opening pathways for Moore, Odobert, Bergvall, Grey etc is much more important.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Him wanting Eze, Neto or Gallagher makes a lot of sense to me. Perhaps a better summer window would have been one of those in addition to Solanke even if that meant not signing Odobert and Gray? But I'm not sure that would have looked the better window 2-3 years from now.

I have similar hopes to you for the future. We've put ourselves in a very strong position with regards to young players now and improved our overall squad to the point that there should be fewer issues to fix.

I also hope that the Solanke signing was made because of the numerous signings Ange wanted (Solanke, Eze, Neto, Gallagher) he wanted Solanke the most. That decision is already made, so more for what it says about the future.

I too hope he's trusted also on his bigger decisions, including if he wants to sell some bigger name or surprising players. Any particular players you think he could surprise us with wanting or being happy to see sold?

Combination of fee, payment structure and wage package I would imagine.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Your rolling the same dice in the same conditions
Every shot is variable
It’s a different player taking a different shot
Does that make sense?
Xg is for an individual shot. The chance variable is the next one isn’t the same shot so the Xg is different
For the accumulation effect it would need to be the same shot, 10 times for one to go in if it’s an Xg of 0.1

Not really. The XG of each shot is derived by the quality of the chance, averaged out by the fact that those same types of chances fall to players of different abilities. The Emirates Marketing Project XG of 2 point whatever from 23 shots wasn’t made up of 23 0.1XG chances. It was made up of some blocked shots, some VERY small XG shots and some of various higher XG chances. However over the course of infinite time if given those same chances again and again they would score an average of 2 point whatever it was goals in the game.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think signing any young player instead of a ready made player is a punt, especially if they have not any experience at the top level. I’m sure the scouts have done their home work before any bid was made. So this of not a dig or a slant on the club so don’t get defensive about it. If anything I love a left field young player signing …

However will we see a time when we will go out and buy perhaps 2-3 top players that will start with the experience to get us across the line in difficult matches?

Or are we still operating on the assumption that if we throw enough brick on the wall some of it will stick?

I think we are not that far off having a ready solid team. For example pushing the boat out and signing Eze (not that I personally rate him) along with Solanke instead of some talented youngsters that may come good eventually, perhaps would have given us more resource that Ange needs today?

There has to be a balance of course, but we have had lots of windows signing young players … perhaps put that aside for a few windows and get the manager what he needs to get the monkey off our back and deliver the fans a manager backed with players for the now to see what can be achieved?

The mixed bag of results perhaps could have been avoided if Ange was given two to three players that would push for the first team not players that are fodder in Europe.

Ultimately I know some of us love levy and others can’t wait to have a dig, but it’s been a common theme of a questionable transfer strategy under Levy during their ownership. Yes they spend money … but do they spend it for success ? Do they spend enough of it directly backing the manager?

I always feel like our managers are hamstrung in this department.

I think we are 2 to 3 windows away from that. Until then I think we’ll probably sign 1 ready made, proven player and a few VERY promising young players in the summer and 1 player somewhere between those two categories in the January window. If we continue as we are now then I think summer 2026 is the one when we’ll sign a couple of ready made, in their prime players who cost almost all of the budget.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Between hindsight and fantasy, Levy gets a hell of a lot wrong.

Why is it a Levy problem?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Im not sure what Lo Celso, Hojbjerg and Gil (or similar replacements) would have contributed if we'd held onto them. Opening pathways for Moore, Odobert, Bergvall, Grey etc is much more important.

Not holding on to those proven as not being good enough like Lo Celso or Gill (Hojbjerg could’ve been useful though) but instead bringing in a couple of good experienced players).

 

[Muttley]

A great conversation to have IMO, because I disagree ...I think against Ipswich we needed our leader group to step up and take charge of the game. They didn't. Perhaps it was a learning curve, but had we had (for example) a player such as Gallagher who drives and harries and carries and drives again, that energy and desire to win might well have been the difference/catalyst in a game such as Ipswich. Who knows, it's a fun thing to discuss though.

Yeah, lazy wording from me there. Where I was going at that was the 11 vs 11 argument. Our 11 were definitely better on paper than Ipswich, as we were against Leicester and Brighton. We still dropped points. I'm not sure whether it needs a Gallagher or whether it needs an Ange to get the guys more fired up. The lethargic Spurs has always been a tough nut to crack.

I think where you're going with this is a player's superior ability versus another player's application can be a leveller. We need both to rebuild a gap and win games.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah, lazy wording from me there. Where I was going at that was the 11 vs 11 argument. Our 11 were definitely better on paper than Ipswich, as we were against Leicester and Brighton. We still dropped points. I'm not sure whether it needs a Gallagher or whether it needs an Ange to get the guys more fired up. The lethargic Spurs has always been a tough nut to crack.

I think where you're going with this is a player's superior ability versus another player's application can be a leveller. We need both to rebuild a gap and win games.

The frustrating thing is we are so close. Between starters and prospects, we are literally a couple of key ingredients away.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes they should’ve…. That’s kind of how XG works mate…. (and I suspect Emirates Marketing Project also have a few players that tend to outperform their XG as well).

They did have
They don’t currently
Their second highest shot taker is Gvardiol
Foden is hitting the target less than 10% of the time

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not really. The XG of each shot is derived by the quality of the chance, averaged out by the fact that those same types of chances fall to players of different abilities. The Emirates Marketing Project XG of 2 point whatever from 23 shots wasn’t made up of 23 0.1XG chances. It was made up of some blocked shots, some VERY small XG shots and some of various higher XG chances. However over the course of infinite time if given those same chances again and again they would score an average of 2 point whatever it was goals in the game.

Yep with the same chances
a 0.1 chance means 1 out of every 10 times that shot goes in, right?
So you need to amen the exact same shot 10 times to score 1
That’s how I learned stats when I did it at uni. The conditions have to be same for the chance to be the same
Change the condition e.g a different shot and the chance changes
Hence why accumulating them doesn’t work

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And weds to sat…. As well as the reverse of that and all those you listed (so CL games soon after PL games so little time to prepare for those).

Reality is that CL or Europa and you’re preparing for 2 games per week, in the CL though you’re typically playing against better teams so need more time to prepare.

But your time in between games is typically higher due to less travel

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ah yes, forgot about Doue - in that case I can see Odobert being the alternative option there tbf as I believe they have similar profiles in terms of attributes.

Doue isn’t pulling up trees at psg