Zaha

[DeleHarry]

Passing around it to pull them out of position.

So is that what currently do and are we effective at it?

Edit.....it's ok I see you have already answered above

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I do see quite a lot of Zaha (on TV at least). Palace are pretty much on in our house every week unless they're playing at the same time as Spurs or there isn't a stream available.

Zaha was used to break out of a defensive block rather than into one almost all the time. Palace's football and ours are almost polar opposites. His defensive work is good, not great, his ability to break with pace is very good, he does turn into a Sterling more often than I'd like once he gets into those positions but I'd far rather it was him on the ball than Benteke.

My concern is that he excels for a team that doesn't ever have to find a was past a parked bus. When he went to a team that does he was poor. I know there are plenty of other reasons why he failed at Utd, but tactics and suitability will be a part of that.

Clearly the teams arent comparable, though I think you do him a disservice - Ive seen him do some great work against defensively set teams, not just on the break.

And, ultimately, should we judge the player on how his team players or his own attributes?

Someone like Vardy perfectly suits Leicesters game, so I can see where people correlate the two but its not always the case.

Zaha is a strong, quick, skilled dribbler able to get through/round players anywhere on the field. Yes, he is an asset on the break - but not exclusively so. And whenever he has the ball he draws 2 or 3 players his way, in itself a major plus for a team as talented as ours.

I don't think we do move the ball quickly enough at times. We have some good technical players who are all capable of a good pass, but I think there's more work to do on getting them to make that "Lamela" pass - the one the opposition doesn't expect.

I also think having someone who can actually make it happen - take on a defender, draw another out, then release it (or more) is a huge asset in breaking sides down.

I love intelligent footballers, making runs and passes to make things happen (City *spit* are excellent in getting beyond the ball) but its also a strength to have someone able to just break the lines alone to then bring others opportunity.

 

[DeleHarry]

So how about in the big games away from home where we play teams who are prepared to come out and play more against us. Wouldn't it be an advantage to have a player like Zaha with his speed and ability to attack on the break

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Do we actually drop many points v the bus parkers? i wonder whether it gets over played because games v them in their nature will be frustrating affairs - season before last we had a fantastic record v them iirc and had no real dribbler to speak of.

I think when the season autopsy arrives, the last few years we seem to have dropped points against the Watfords/West Hams/WBAs of this world that proved costly.

Ive mentioned before, but I also have another angle on it as well. The nature of the win.

Utd, at their peak (Arsenal, Chelsea too), had the wonderful knack of winning games in the first half/60 minutes.

So, so often, between 15 and 40 minutes, they would get a couple of goals. At which point they hit cruise control, sat back, reserved their energy, and just picked off the other team as the opportunities came.

These wins were easier on the body and mind than our MO of huffing and puffing and working for 80 minutes before getting the break through.

Unsubstantiated, of course, but IMO this must weigh heavy over a season.

Not saying Zaha specifically, like @r-u-s-x says - a player like that - could well be the spark that allows us to break teams early and settle in for a more controlled and easy game.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I do see quite a lot of Zaha (on TV at least). Palace are pretty much on in our house every week unless they're playing at the same time as Spurs or there isn't a stream available.

Zaha was used to break out of a defensive block rather than into one almost all the time. Palace's football and ours are almost polar opposites. His defensive work is good, not great, his ability to break with pace is very good, he does turn into a Sterling more often than I'd like once he gets into those positions but I'd far rather it was him on the ball than Benteke.

My concern is that he excels for a team that doesn't ever have to find a was past a parked bus. When he went to a team that does he was poor. I know there are plenty of other reasons why he failed at Utd, but tactics and suitability will be a part of that.

Players that excel from teams that play on the break often struggle with team that play possession football. The lack of space is just too different for them. Siggy was a recent example of this for us.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Players that excel from teams that play on the break often struggle with team that play possession football. The lack of space is just too different for them. Siggy was a recent example of this for us.

Siggurdson? Do you mean coming to us from Swansea? Maybe it is my memory that is wrong, but I don't recall Swansea being a team that played on the break? they always seemed to play very patient possession football.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I thought Zaha played the majority of games last season through the middle, leading the line (couple of sites seem to back that up fwiw) id hazard a guess that someone who thinks he only plays off the left and is not flexible probably hasnt watched much of him at all (quelle surprise)

So he played CF, yet only managed to score 9 goals in all competitions (which is actually a career best, his average is 4.4 goals per season)?

 

[scaramanga]

Siggurdson? Do you mean coming to us from Swansea? Maybe it is my memory that is wrong, but I don't recall Swansea being a team that played on the break? they always seemed to play very patient possession football.

But with a lot more space in behind than we face.

 

[Gutter Boy]

So how about in the big games away from home where we play teams who are prepared to come out and play more against us. Wouldn't it be an advantage to have a player like Zaha with his speed and ability to attack on the break

So £70m for an option to play against City? Or if we get Barca in the CL. 95% or our games we dominate possession

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Players that excel from teams that play on the break often struggle with team that play possession football. The lack of space is just too different for them. Siggy was a recent example of this for us.

Yes, they do, when that space is required for them to show their ability.

Zaha's game is literally defined by NOT having space. By ALWAYS having 2 or 3 players on him no matter where he is.

Doesnt quite stack up the same, does it?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Yes, they do, when that space is required for them to show their ability.

Zaha's game is literally defined by NOT having space. By ALWAYS having 2 or 3 players on him no matter where he is.

Doesnt quite stack up the same, does it?

A fullback and CB/winger doubling up on him is very different to 10 players stood in 2 two lines in front of him

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

And if you watched him you would understand just how basic and ill made that opinion is.

 

[camspur]

With Moura, Lamela and Son why do we need Zaha???

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Different horses for different courses.

Options.

Strength in depth.

Its a long season...

 

[Finney Is Back]

Players that excel from teams that play on the break often struggle with team that play possession football. The lack of space is just too different for them. Siggy was a recent example of this for us.

I agree that players who need space to operate can struggle when denied that space. I thought a good example of this was Darren Bent. He was great at running behind when receiving the ball over the top, but then struggled at Spurs as he was hopeless when having to get involved in build up play.

I don't think Zaha is a player that needs space to operate. After Hazard at Chelsea I think Zaha is probably the next most tightly marked player in the league. However because he has very good skill and is physically powerful he can receive the ball, create space and do something.

I wasn't an avid watcher of Palace last season so my view isn't formed from a huge sample size but I do remember quite a few goals either created or scored by Zaha for Palace that were the result of quite intricate moves around the opposition's penalty box with the opposition sitting deep. The goals were created via Zaha's quick feet and good movement. With the amount of possession that we get around the opposition's penalty area I think Zaha's quick feet, pace and movement would be a good attacking weapon.

 

[Finney Is Back]

With Moura, Lamela and Son why do we need Zaha???

That is only 3 players to play as wide forwards over 50 to 60 games. One of them will miss some of the season off with South Korea and another has a pretty poor injury record (and IMO probably isn't quite good enough to be starting for a team that has designs on winning the leage anyway).

 

[Gutter Boy]

That is only 3 players to play as wide forwards over 50 to 60 games. One of them will miss some of the season off with South Korea and another has a pretty poor injury record (and IMO probably isn't quite good enough to be starting for a team that has designs on winning the leage anyway).

But we also have Eriksen and Alli, and play a very fluid/interchanging 2 or 3 behind Kane

 

[camspur]

That is only 3 players to play as wide forwards over 50 to 60 games. One of them will miss some of the season off with South Korea and another has a pretty poor injury record (and IMO probably isn't quite good enough to be starting for a team that has designs on winning the leage anyway).

So they'd have to play 20 ish games each then, hardly an exacting season for them. Even if one went down injured that's still only 30 games.

I'd sooner we got a decent striker in to give Kane a rest than having someone to rest 3 players, 2 of which will be resting.

And no Zaha IS NOT a CF to cover for Kane.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

So they'd have to play 20 ish games each then, hardly an exacting season for them. Even if one went down injured that's still only 30 games.

I'd sooner we got a decent striker in to give Kane a rest than having someone to rest 3 players, 2 of which will be resting.

And no Zaha IS NOT a CF to cover for Kane.

If we played 3 attacking players, thats more like 180 games to cover - 3 x 60. Cover is absolutely required, they wouldnt be playing 20 games at all.

Over the last few seasons the best cover we have found for Kane is Son. It works, well. So technically we would need cover for him should he be played CF.

Zaha could absolutely provide that

 

[DeleHarry]

With Moura, Lamela and Son why do we need Zaha???

Why do City need D Silva, B Silva, Foden and now Mahrez....they all do the same thing