Zaha

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I thought Zaha played the majority of games last season through the middle, leading the line (couple of sites seem to back that up fwiw) id hazard a guess that someone who thinks he only plays off the left and is not flexible probably hasnt watched much of him at all (quelle surprise)

Palace are local, so Im more exposed to them than most other teams - but Im ffar from 100% up to dat eon them.

From what I saw/heard he had almost a free role. Didnt seem explicitly central, per se, but of course would have spent plenty of time there.

Zaha left, Townsend right, as "base" positions - but then they just played from there where ever they saw fit, moving all over the place.

Thats at least the understanding I have, but as said - hands up - Im not going to claim to be the oracle on them.

Though I certainly agree with your final point, however he played last season he was most certainly not an Orthodox/old school LW.

Very effective (in a really ugly way) and great with ghosting in at the back post and scoring headers. But he is injury prone and other than pace doesn't really offer a lot else. Last chance for West Ham to get decent money for him and he is the type to kick up a fuss if he isn't being played.

Only an opinion but if he listened to his manager I think he has the tools to be a decent RWB but that ship has sailed now, will be a middling RW.

Pretty much fits my thoughts on his game, I just hadnt picked up on the attitude side of him.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Much like the arguments as to why his numbers may be low because of who he plays for the same logic should be applied for Martial who hasn't been in a position to drag a team out of relegation etc tbf

I get that. While Martial clearly hasnt had the opportunity to, Zaha actually did it though. And its a big plus too him, that shows something outside of the stats - which was all I was trying to illustrate.

 

[Kandi1977]

Palace often play without a striker, so Zaha (particularly) and Townsend have freedom to roam where the space is. While he operates from the left side, he is far from a chalk on the boots type and has developed a game that works well centrally and even over on the right.

Also, crossing is not the point of dribbling. It would be like levelling the same issue at Dembele. The point of dribbling is to create space, something Zaha excels at and we struggle to do against defensively set teams. If Zaha can pull two defenders out of place and lay it off, for example, we are laughing considering its Alli/Eriksen/Kane getting the ball, in those areas, with space.

You need to refine your understanding of the player, because whenever you talk about him you appear to be talking about someone else entirely.

Ive always seen NKoudou as a right sided player, not sure why then Schlupp would have anything to do with him. Though, as I said, it was speculative anyway. I actually like NKoudou, I think theres somehting about him - but it seems clear he wont be getting chances here.

Often play without a striker? They either played with Sørloth or Benteke up front for the vast majority of games. There was only a short spell when both of those where out where they played without a recognized striker.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Often play without a striker? They either played with Sørloth or Benteke up front for the vast majority of games. There was only a short spell when both of those where out where they played without a recognized striker.

Same thing

Seriously though, thats how they were a lot of the time when I saw them/what I saw of them. As already pointed out, Im not claiming to be an expert.

 

[billyiddo]

I get that. While Martial clearly hasnt had the opportunity to, Zaha actually did it though. And its a big plus too him, that shows something outside of the stats - which was all I was trying to illustrate.

I get that too, but to say he has 'done much more' is inaccurate/meaningless by that metric as plenty of players have been the main men for lowly clubs and struggled to make an impact at bigger clubs in the same way - Martial is a player who has a proven output for a top end club, been apart of several trophy winning teams and on an individual level has won the Golden Boy award (best young player in Europe) i wouldn't say Zaha has done much more than him despite appreciating his circumstances

 

[r-u-s-x]

Often play without a striker? They either played with Sørloth or Benteke up front for the vast majority of games. There was only a short spell when both of those where out where they played without a recognized striker.

Bloody hell Benetke played 30 League games last year!!! I excused his poor goal return due to lack of game time, thought he had a big injury.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I get that too, but to say he has 'done much more' is inaccurate/meaningless by that metric as plenty of players have been the main men for lowly clubs and struggled to make an impact at bigger clubs in the same way - Martial is a player who has a proven output for a top end club, been apart of several trophy winning teams and on an individual level has won the Golden Boy award (best young player in Europe) i wouldn't say Zaha has done much more than him despite appreciating his circumstances

As I said, its a perspective thing - not necessarily a statistic thing. Im sure @Spursman will clarify at some point.

For me, it has merit. He has done a lot that Martial hasnt - though as you say, that also cuts both ways.

 

[scaramanga]

Prior to Zaha going to Man Utd I remember him playing centre forward against them in a Cup match and he absolutely ripped them to shreds, I think it was that performance that made Ferguson go after him.

What do you mean by not being sure how prized dribbling is in a post crossing world? Whenever a player beats his man it leaves him running into space and leads to the opposition having to pull a player out of position to cover that space, which then results in space for other players to receive the ball.

Not if he's dribbling into a compact defensive block - what we spend 90+% of our playing time facing.

 

[DeleHarry]

Not if he's dribbling into a compact defensive block - what we spend 90+% of our playing time facing.

So how do you suggest we find a way through it?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

So how do you suggest we find a way through it?

PACE its the universal panacea. Running at full pace into a brick wall always works.

 

[scaramanga]

So how do you suggest we find a way through it?

Passing around it to pull them out of position.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Passing around it to pull them out of position.

Linked with movement and quick passing.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Passing around it to pull them out of position.

We have players who can do that though and we are trying that already - is it good to buy more of the same? He does seem to be able to dribble in tight places you often see him beating 2 or 3.

I think we are missing players who can influence the game on their own rather than as a team. Son can sometimes and hopeful Moura can - would be nice to get another.

 

[scaramanga]

Palace are local, so Im more exposed to them than most other teams - but Im ffar from 400% up to dat eon them.

From what I saw/heard he had almost a free role. Didnt seem explicitly central, per se, but of course would have spent plenty of time there.

Zaha left, Townsend right, as "base" positions - but then they just played from there where ever they saw fit, moving all over the place.

Thats at least the understanding I have, but as said - hands up - Im not going to claim to be the oracle on them.

Though I certainly agree with your final point, however he played last season he was most certainly not an Orthodox/old school LW.






Pretty much fits my thoughts on his game, I just hadnt picked up on the attitude side of him.

I do see quite a lot of Zaha (on TV at least). Palace are pretty much on in our house every week unless they're playing at the same time as Spurs or there isn't a stream available.

Zaha was used to break out of a defensive block rather than into one almost all the time. Palace's football and ours are almost polar opposites. His defensive work is good, not great, his ability to break with pace is very good, he does turn into a Sterling more often than I'd like once he gets into those positions but I'd far rather it was him on the ball than Benteke.

My concern is that he excels for a team that doesn't ever have to find a was past a parked bus. When he went to a team that does he was poor. I know there are plenty of other reasons why he failed at Utd, but tactics and suitability will be a part of that.

 

[scaramanga]

Linked with movement and quick passing.

Quite.

 

[scaramanga]

We have players who can do that though and we are trying that already - is it good to buy more of the same? He does seem to be able to dribble in tight places you often see him beating 2 or 3.

I think we are missing players who can influence the game on their own rather than as a team. Son can sometimes and hopeful Moura can - would be nice to get another.

I don't think we do move the ball quickly enough at times. We have some good technical players who are all capable of a good pass, but I think there's more work to do on getting them to make that "Lamela" pass - the one the opposition doesn't expect.

 

[harr1984]

Passing around it to pull them out of position.

We already do that and countless times hasn’t worked. Zaha can beat players from a standing position, we don’t have enough of that when passing through a team doesn’t work....

 

[r-u-s-x]

I don't think we do move the ball quickly enough at times. We have some good technical players who are all capable of a good pass, but I think there's more work to do on getting them to make that "Lamela" pass - the one the opposition doesn't expect.

Yes agree with this but I don't think we need to bring in new players who can do this as we have players who are capable in the squad already. I have thought for a while that we are missing an "unpredictable" player who can beat players in the final third, this gives the defenders another thing to worry about.

Not championing Zaha but a Zaha like player is needed imo.

 

[billyiddo]

Do we actually drop many points v the bus parkers? i wonder whether it gets over played because games v them in their nature will be frustrating affairs - season before last we had a fantastic record v them iirc and had no real dribbler to speak of.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I do see quite a lot of Zaha (on TV at least). Palace are pretty much on in our house every week unless they're playing at the same time as Spurs or there isn't a stream available.

Zaha was used to break out of a defensive block rather than into one almost all the time. Palace's football and ours are almost polar opposites. His defensive work is good, not great, his ability to break with pace is very good, he does turn into a Sterling more often than I'd like once he gets into those positions but I'd far rather it was him on the ball than Benteke.

My concern is that he excels for a team that doesn't ever have to find a was past a parked bus. When he went to a team that does he was poor. I know there are plenty of other reasons why he failed at Utd, but tactics and suitability will be a part of that.

I don't watch full games as much as you but when I do he does seem to have 2-3 players occupied in the corner / touchline (all from a standing start) would suggest this is a proxy for a packed defense.

It did appear that Emirates Marketing Project were seriously in for him last year and us the year before, I don't know if that allays the Man U fears, he didn't turn out to be a wonderkid but could be a good move later in his career.