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Zaha

Well where is all of Pochs quotes saying he wants Martial then?
Totally agree, I'm not pro one or the other I just wanted to understand how posters know what player Poch wants, I kinda understand the Martial thing as it was in the press that we tried to sign him a couple of years ago but that doesn't mean we still want him.

If it is all conjecture then that's fine, I just assumed that I had missed the links
 
Totally agree, I'm not pro one or the other I just wanted to understand how posters know what player Poch wants, I kinda understand the Martial thing as it was in the press that we tried to sign him a couple of years ago but that doesn't mean we still want him.

If it is all conjecture then that's fine, I just assumed that I had missed the links
No you’re right, but one of the main arguments here is that it is hypothetical with people saying IF Zaha is Pochs main target then let’s back him and for once give the manager what he wants even if it means overspending a little. No one knows for sure if he genuinely wants/did want him, but if he does then let’s back the manager for once because historically it’s something we haven’t been able to do....
 
No you’re right, but one of the main arguments here is that it is hypothetical with people saying IF Zaha is Pochs main target then let’s back him and for once give the manager what he wants even if it means overspending a little. No one knows for sure if he genuinely wants/did want him, but if he does then let’s back the manager for once because historically it’s something we haven’t been able to do....
Totally agree, as supporters we should do just that and support the team, the manager and whoever the manager buys and plays even though sometimes it looks to us and the outside world that those decisions are strange.
 
The challenge we have is we have three players that we cannot / will not rotate - Kane Alli and Eriksen. It’s also very unlikely we would take Kane off in a game so which is why I think Janssen and Llorente have looked even worse in a Spurs shirt - a lack of a match sharpness and experience of playing with the first team in a ‘normal’ match situation. So we need to find someone who is good enough to fight for a place with Eriksen Alli Moura Son and Lamela butwho can also play as centre forward to share the workload with Kane. So maybe Zaha or Martial would technically be replacing Llorente or Janssen on the bench but for their likely cost they’d probably be cool competing to be the third attacking midfielder in a lot of games too. (If we play 4231)
 
The challenge we have is we have three players that we cannot / will not rotate - Kane Alli and Eriksen. It’s also very unlikely we would take Kane off in a game so which is why I think Janssen and Llorente have looked even worse in a Spurs shirt - a lack of a match sharpness and experience of playing with the first team in a ‘normal’ match situation. So we need to find someone who is good enough to fight for a place with Eriksen Alli Moura Son and Lamela butwho can also play as centre forward to share the workload with Kane. So maybe Zaha or Martial would technically be replacing Llorente or Janssen on the bench but for their likely cost they’d probably be cool competing to be the third attacking midfielder in a lot of games too. (If we play 4231)
This is Poch's challenge and he needs to learn to manage a team with depth and options to go through a long season and stay in contention for top 4 and win something.

Sent from my SM-T819Y using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Genuine question, not trying to be funny, but how do we know Poch has been after Zaha for the last 2 years, has he come out and said this? I'm assuming there have been quotes etc.

back in 2016...........

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ject-tottenham-hotspurs-bid-for-wilfried-zaha

Crystal Palace’s chairman, Steve Parish, has insisted Wilfried Zaha is not for sale after rejecting a bid worth an initial £12m from Tottenham for the twice-capped England international.

The bid, which also included £2m in add-ons, was submitted on Thursday but was quickly dismissed as derisory by Palace. They intend to rebuff any further offers from suitors for the 23-year-old and will seek to renew talks over a new contract for the winger, though they still face an uphill battle to convince the player his long-term future should be at Selhurst Park.

“We had a bid from Spurs but £12m – it’s ridiculous. I can’t imagine that they’re serious,” Parish told TalkSport.

“It’s not right really that players get their heads turned,” Parish added. “I was told that the manager there [at Tottenham] thinks he’s the next Ronaldo. Well, I’d like to get the next Ronaldo for £12m.
 
ronaldo-real-madrid-legends-973780.jpg
 
back in 2016...........

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ject-tottenham-hotspurs-bid-for-wilfried-zaha

Crystal Palace’s chairman, Steve Parish, has insisted Wilfried Zaha is not for sale after rejecting a bid worth an initial £12m from Tottenham for the twice-capped England international.

The bid, which also included £2m in add-ons, was submitted on Thursday but was quickly dismissed as derisory by Palace. They intend to rebuff any further offers from suitors for the 23-year-old and will seek to renew talks over a new contract for the winger, though they still face an uphill battle to convince the player his long-term future should be at Selhurst Park.

“We had a bid from Spurs but £12m – it’s ridiculous. I can’t imagine that they’re serious,” Parish told TalkSport.

“It’s not right really that players get their heads turned,” Parish added. “I was told that the manager there [at Tottenham] thinks he’s the next Ronaldo. Well, I’d like to get the next Ronaldo for £12m.

I would value him a little higher to be honest as a proven prem player probably 20m. But the clubs valuation of him is far closer to what I think he is worth then what Palace think he is worth. Does show to me that we are paying for the stadium and will be looking for bargain signings.

I see Palaces point when Mahrez goes for the price he does I can imagine Palace would want 50m for Zaha.
 
Struggling to understand your logic other than you clearly do not like the player (though, after that disgusting instagram post, can't say I blame you).

Miles better at his age... Adel Taarabt was miles (and miles) better than 80% of current attackers in the premiership at 19. Fat good that was. Who cares how many goals he scored at 21. Some players develop later than others. Incidentally Richarlison actually scored 4 league goals last season, all in purple patch which then dissipated as quickly as it came, to the extent that he was benched by a mid/lower table team. And you would prefer him to a player who kept a doomed team in the Premiership practically on his own.

This "better than..." is - no disrespect - a puerile argument that should remain in school playgrounds. Better in what? Is he better than Dele in getting into the box and scoring goals? No! Is he better than Eriksen in seeing space and threading an impossible ball into it? No, again. But is he better at taking on opponents, a beating one, two or even three players in areas which hurt the opponent and disrupting their shape. Most definitely YES; and that also includes Moura and Lamela, who have different strengths to bring to the table. So the question is not whether he is 70 mill better but, IMHO, should be rephrased as... is it worthwhile spending 70 mill to bring this skill set into our squad? Those supporting a Zaha transfer - myself included - will say Yes because if we fail to make top 4 next season, it will almost certainly be because we have failed to beat enough teams beneath us, teams who set out to frustrate putting everyone behind the ball. While we need to see what Moura can contribute in these situations, the impact of the rest of the current squad is well known and we will struggle again to break these teams down without someone able to pull out something special in terms of flash of magic. For that, I would definitely pay 70 mill.

As for being a "good option off the bench"... I have seen enough supposedly learned posters claim that player X or Y is not good enough for our first team (just go to the beginning of the Harry thread) only for them to have to eat big chunks of humble pie months later. All I can say is.... does Zaha have the attributes to become a regular starter? Once again, anyone without an underlying bias, would have to conclude that the potential is there. Whether he then takes that up, is something only time would tell.

Ok. There's a lot here. Before I respond to some of your points, here's a quick, clear breakdown my overall points so you can "understand my logic."

a) Wilfried Zaha is not worth 70 million pounds (and it has nothing to do with IG). He's never produced like a 70 million pound player, and at 25, he's extremely unlikely to take the exponential leap to become that kind of elite attacker.
b) Signing him would take up a huge amount of our budget and could be better used in other places.
c) I would also not be in favor of spending 50 million pounds on Richarlison. I was only using him as a point of comparison and to illustrate value.

Now to your points.

"Adel Taarabt was miles (and miles) better than 80% of current attackers in the premiership at 19."

This one was my favorite. When Adel was 22 years old, he had made precisely 10 first team starts, scoring precisely zero goals. Miles (and miles) better than 80% of young attackers in the Prem, hahaha ok.

"Incidentally Richarlison actually scored 4 league goals last season, all in purple patch which then dissipated as quickly as it came, to the extent that he was benched by a mid/lower table team"

Richarlison appeared in all 38 Prem games for Watford and started 32, so not sure when he was benched. Also, his .34 xG per 90 is an extremely high number for a winger, better than Sane and Zaha for comparison. In truth, he was actually unlucky with his finishing, which hints that he's capable of getting much better.

"This "better than..." is - no disrespect - a puerile argument that should remain in school playgrounds. Better in what? Is he better than Dele in getting into the box and scoring goals? No! Is he better than Eriksen in seeing space and threading an impossible ball into it? No, again. But is he better at taking on opponents, a beating one, two or even three players in areas which hurt the opponent and disrupting their shape. Most definitely YES"

Besides the hilarious irony that you opened this rebuttal by talking about how Taarabt is "better" than 80% of Prem players at 19, better means more productive. Pretty easy to understand. My point is that, our attack would be more productive with Kane, Son, Eriksen, and Alli as our attacking four than Zaha in any of those roles. If a club like Spurs are going to spend 70 million on an attacker, you would think he'd be able to get into the first XI. He's not more productive than any of the aforementioned 4, and Lamela and Moura actually have better/similar numbers, even though last year was a much smaller sample size so those numbers are a bit skewed.

"is it worthwhile spending 70 mill to bring this skill set into our squad?"

Which brings us to our main point of contention. Is it worth 70 million pounds to add a peak age bench option who will help us beat "lower teams" (who we almost always beat anyway)? You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a hard 'no' from me. Spending 70 mil on a 25 year-old who has the "potential" to break into our first team is not a logical use of money. But you're entitled to your own.
 
Besides the hilarious irony that you opened this rebuttal by talking about how Taarabt is "better" than 80% of Prem players at 19, better means more productive. Pretty easy to understand. My point is that, our attack would be more productive with Kane, Son, Eriksen, and Alli as our attacking four than Zaha in any of those roles. If a club like Spurs are going to spend 70 million on an attacker, you would think he'd be able to get into the first XI.
Just to take this quote in isolation. I don’t think I would sell any of the 4 you mention for as little as £70 million and therefore I’m not sure we should expect players who cost that, or less, to walk into our first team. Currently if Son doesn’t play there is a VERY big step down to N’Koudou. I would like a player who can challenge Son for a place on the left side of our attack. Whether or not that is Zaha I’m not sure, but we’ll struggle to get one for less than £60 to £70 million.
 
Just to take this quote in isolation. I don’t think I would sell any of the 4 you mention for as little as £70 million and therefore I’m not sure we should expect players who cost that, or less, to walk into our first team. Currently if Son doesn’t play there is a VERY big step down to N’Koudou. I would like a player who can challenge Son for a place on the left side of our attack. Whether or not that is Zaha I’m not sure, but we’ll struggle to get one for less than £60 to £70 million.

Totally hear what you're saying. My point is not that we shouldn't spend money on that role, it's more about who we're spending it on.

I still think Martial is the main target cuz of his versatility and ability, but I wouldn't rule Pulisic out either. Both those players would cost something around 50-70 mil, and both would be worthy additions IMO.

Also, if you sign a younger player, you get the added benefit of them being able to grow into the role in the next few years. Zaha is already the finished article at 25.
 
Also, begs the question, what's in it for Zaha? If he comes to Spurs for 70 mil, the pressure will be MASSIVE. And if we both kinda agree that he's not a guaranteed starter, it could turn into a really rough spot for him, especially considering what happened with him at Man U.
 
Will it?

The market has gone mad. £70m is not major money now, as unbelievable as that is.

Zaha is finding new levels to his game, coming into his prime, and wants to test himself in the CL. We offer him a young and dynamic team, in London, with all the facilities etc he could dream of, and a coach that will push him to new levels.

The money has reached a point where it is incomprehensible. I doubt players even let it bother them now, its become meaningless.
 
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