• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Yves Bissouma

As people have outlined, we can trust the club will not commit millions of pounds to a soon to be condemned man. There will have been scrutiny and care.

Maybe we should quickly highlight one positive - a sexual assault in a nightclub probably wouldn't have had any action at all 10+ years ago. We should acknowledge that we live in a more protected fairer space now. Far from perfect, but probably more protected and better than ever before. That is a small positive.

The presumption of innocence dates back well over 1000 years, a cornerstone of civilization. Whether the Manga Carta (1200ish British laws we exported to the US), Islamic law, or the Talmud which were written down at a similar time, they all respect the presumption of innocence. The Talmud says:

"every man is innocent until proved guilty. Hence, the infliction of unusual rigours on the accused must be delayed until his innocence has been successfully challenged. Thus, in the early stages of the trial, arguments in his defence are as elaborate as with any other man on trial. Only when his guilt has become apparent were the solicitous provisions that had been made to protect defendants waived"

The earliest written records of this civilised premise date to the Babylonians about 2500 years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTA
SpurMeUp said:
As people have outlined, we can trust the club will not commit millions of pounds to a soon to be condemned man. There will have been scrutiny and care.

Maybe we should quickly highlight one positive - a sexual assault in a nightclub probably wouldn't have had any action at all 10+ years ago. We should acknowledge that we live in a more protected fairer space now. Far from perfect, but probably more protected and better than ever before. That is a small positive.

The presumption of innocence dates back well over 1000 years, a cornerstone of civilization. Whether the Manga Carta (1200ish British laws we exported to the US), Islamic law, or the Talmud which were written down at a similar time, they all respect the presumption of innocence. The Talmud says:

"every man is innocent until proved guilty. Hence, the infliction of unusual rigours on the accused must be delayed until his innocence has been successfully challenged. Thus, in the early stages of the trial, arguments in his defence are as elaborate as with any other man on trial. Only when his guilt has become apparent were the solicitous provisions that had been made to protect defendants waived"

The earliest written records of this civilised premise date to the Babylonians about 2500 years ago.
Click to expand...

I absolutely can not believe that smart people in this thread are arguing against the presumption of innocence… or more over not applying it. That is incredibly dangerous.

I get that not enough victims of sexual assault come forward, and that should change. But changing that CAN NOT mean removing the assumption of innocence, that’s Pandora’s box you are opening and the demons won’t just go back in.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Maybe we should quickly highlight one positive - a sexual assault in a nightclub probably wouldn't have had any action at all 10+ years ago. We should acknowledge that we live in a more protected fairer space now. Far from perfect, but probably more protected and better than ever before. That is a small positive
Click to expand...

Ask a women if they feel any safer now than they did 10 years ago.
 
DTA said:
I absolutely can not believe that smart people in this thread are arguing against the presumption of innocence… or more over not applying it. That is incredibly dangerous.

I get that not enough victims of sexual assault come forward, and that should change. But changing that CAN NOT mean removing the assumption of innocence, that’s Pandora’s box you are opening and the demons won’t just go back in.
Click to expand...

I think your second para goes towards explaining the first.
'Believe the victim' is a line that has been given a lot of air in recent months and years and you can see why.
But there's inherent difficulties that render such a line glib. And also huge problems that render such a line appealing and desirable.
 
JerusalemMan said:
What if they say yes?
Do we dismiss it as anecdotal, an irrelevant outlier? Or do we consider that maybe there has been progression?
Click to expand...

Of course there has been progression. But don't kid yourself that we're in a good spot. In Australia, one woman is murdered every week by someone known to them. If that's progress and we should pat ourselves on the back then I want off the earth.
 
tommysvr said:
Ask a women if they feel any safer now than they did 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

Do you think sexual assault in a nightclub would have been acted upon 10+ years ago with the seriousness it is now? It is not a big win, but I think we live in safer spaces where these things are taken seriously in this country. Interested if this is not the case.

For @thfcsteff there are some exceptions to UK law on the presumption of innocence:

in sexual offense cases such as *struggle cuddle*, where the sexual act has already been proved beyond reasonable doubt, there are a limited number of circumstances where the defendant has an obligation to provide evidence that the complainant consented to the sexual act, or that the defendant reasonably believed that the complainant was consenting.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
Do you think sexual assault in a nightclub would have been acted upon 10+ years ago with the seriousness it now? It is not a big win, but I think we live in safer spaces where these things are taken seriously in this country. Interested if this is not the case.
Click to expand...

One case doesn't make a difference to me. There's still far too many women who are not believed, and far too much disrespect of and violence against women.
 
tommysvr said:
One case doesn't make a difference to me. There's still far too many women who are not believed, and far too much disrespect of and violence against women.
Click to expand...

But we can't just believe all women. It's not how our judicial system works. You can't just lock up people because sombody says they did something. That would open it up to all sorts of abuse.

Every accusation should be treated with respect and investigated fully. Evidence gathered. A jury will then decide the facts.

Edit - only 16% of rapes are reported to the police. That is a massive problem right there.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...enetrationenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020
 
Last edited:
tommysvr said:
One case doesn't make a difference to me. There's still far too many women who are not believed, and far too much disrespect of and violence against women.
Click to expand...

i don’t disagree. The point was, in the UK at least, we're in a better place than we were in the past; and as a society we treat sexual assault far more seriously than we did. It used to be laughed off as insignificant acts not all that long ago. Idk if the same could be said for the US and Australia, I would not know about your reality.
 
SpurMeUp said:
i don’t disagree. The point was, in the UK at least, we're in a better place than we were in the past; and as a society we treat sexual assault far more seriously than we did. It used to be laughed off as insignificant acts not all that long ago. Idk if the same could be said for the US and Australia, I would not know about your reality.
Click to expand...

Here's to continuing good work in these areas.
 
Lilbaz said:
But we can't just believe all women. It's not how our judicial system works. You can't just lock up people because sombody says they did something. That would open it up to all sorts of abuse.

Every accusation should be treated with respect and investigated fully. Evidence gathered. A jury will then decide the facts.

Edit - only 16% of rapes are reported to the police. That is a massive problem right there.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...enetrationenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020
Click to expand...

I think we both agree on the main points; certainly not saying that Bissouma should be locked up or not signed without a guilty verdict, but at the same time it challenges me to have someone accused of that likely joining our club. Many, many sportsman and other men in positions of power have got away with sexual assault and worse.

As to the unreported stats, I wish there was a way for men and the wider public to see how a court case plays out. I saw the rapist of someone very close to me be found not guilty. The defence attorney simple attacked the victim the whole time. They had a PI follow her and her family to try and get any bit of info that might make her look less trustworthy.

I have no idea how we fix it but why would any women want to put them self through that sort of treatment, on top of reliving the worst experience of their life?
 
tommysvr said:
Of course there has been progression. But don't kid yourself that we're in a good spot. In Australia, one woman is murdered every week by someone known to them. If that's progress and we should pat ourselves on the back then I want off the earth.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure many kid themselves that we are in a good spot.
But maybe just one that's not quite as bad as it used to be
 
tommysvr said:
I think we both agree on the main points; certainly not saying that Bissouma should be locked up or not signed without a guilty verdict, but at the same time it challenges me to have someone accused of that likely joining our club. Many, many sportsman and other men in positions of power have got away with sexual assault and worse.

As to the unreported stats, I wish there was a way for men and the wider public to see how a court case plays out. I saw the rapist of someone very close to me be found not guilty. The defence attorney simple attacked the victim the whole time. They had a PI follow her and her family to try and get any bit of info that might make her look less trustworthy.

I have no idea how we fix it but why would any women want to put them self through that sort of treatment, on top of reliving the worst experience of their life?
Click to expand...

That's the thing we don't know what or if he has been accused of. He isn't on bail the other person is. Something happened. But we really don't know what his involvement was.

We know from the os bid, spurs aren't afraid to use pi's. In a situation like this worth millions in investment (not just in the player but for sponsorship deals). I'd hope they did their due dilligence.

As for the defence hiring a pi. That should be looked at. Maybe consider it harrassment.
 
Last edited:
Which of the multiple 'here we go' tweets from him is this? History says he says it multiple times about the same deal over several days
 
Romano is getting worse. I believe that is a mocked up image not a real one, but every time he posts a "here we go" every twenty something fan boy with a spurs insta page reports it as a done deal, when medicals can find problems etc etc then berates the club if it doesn't happen (which granted Romano has only got Paulo Fonseca wrong to be fair).
 
Surfless said:
Romano is getting worse. I believe that is a mocked up image not a real one, but every time he posts a "here we go" every twenty something fan boy with a spurs insta page reports it as a done deal, when medicals can find problems etc etc then berates the club if it doesn't happen (which granted Romano has only got Paulo Fonseca wrong to be fair).
Click to expand...

It's just an image that is doing the rounds - doesn't mean anything of itself.

As far as football transfer gossip reporting goes Romano is head and shoulders the most reliable
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back