I thought clubs should have threatened players with furlough when they refused a paycut.
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Yves Bissouma
- Thread starter Daisuk
- Start date
I thought clubs should have threatened players with furlough when they refused a paycut.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think it is fair to say that a major factor in his current value is the fact he has 12 months left on his contract and apparently won't sign a new one, thus Brighton risk losing him for nothing.
I think an interesting question is whether other clubs have held back interest based on his situation?
I have no idea.
I think it is incredibly tricky to comment from out here.
The one thing I am sure of is that IF he were to be found guilty, there would need to be immediate and unequivocal cutting of ties.
I further hope that the club have done their diligence, and that there will be a statement of some detail if this deal does actually happen.
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Bullet
Andy Thompson
None of us know/have the details: E.g.
Scenario 1: Bissouma is in a nightclub with a big entourage, gets a VIP table and orders expensive champagne, certain women see this and wander over and check out the rich man/men and try to get picked up by them. Some want a night of fun, some want to become the long term girlfriend, some want to cause a scene and cry foul... there is a ruckus and a girl starts shouting about Bissouma's uncle because he grabbed her ass or tried to grope her when she did not consent to that at all
We can guess and write out Scenarios 2-100 and they would all be incorrect
We just don't know the scope of this "sexual assault" charge but so far the rumours imply it is along those lines
Scenario 1: Bissouma is in a nightclub with a big entourage, gets a VIP table and orders expensive champagne, certain women see this and wander over and check out the rich man/men and try to get picked up by them. Some want a night of fun, some want to become the long term girlfriend, some want to cause a scene and cry foul... there is a ruckus and a girl starts shouting about Bissouma's uncle because he grabbed her ass or tried to grope her when she did not consent to that at all
We can guess and write out Scenarios 2-100 and they would all be incorrect
We just don't know the scope of this "sexual assault" charge but so far the rumours imply it is along those lines
Gerrard confirmed in January window they had bid for him Steff:
https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...s-aston-villa-had-yves-bissouma-bid-rejected/
thfcsteff
George Hunt
IMO you'd be best off saying nothing Bullet, because the 'scenario 1' you've presented directly suggests you think this is a case of 'false accusation' or 'just a bit of ass grabbing' which is precisely the concern some have regarding this entire case with regards to victims of abuse being heard fairly and seriously, let alone finding the courage to come forward and say something. BTW, 'he grabbed her ass or tried to grope her when she did not consent to that at all' is sexual assault offense full-stop. The fact that so many incidents like this go unchallenged does not lessen that fact.
That the 'scenario' you chose to write out is 1 (and the ones you left in 2-100 would, presumably, include scenarios of guilt) is telling.
For me the point of discussion here is whether we should be approaching a player currently 'under investigation' in connection with a reported assault case. And I see both sides of that coin. Personally, I am left relying on the trust I have in our club to uphold their to-now high levels of community standard and moral decency, and thus am choosing to believe that they do, indeed, have information which suggests Bissouma is about to be exonerated from any association with what is always a serious and appalling crime.
FWIW I don't think you're in any way trying to minimize the situation, I was just using what you had posted as an example of something which very quickly can appear to be 'not taking it seriously' which is what none of us want surely...
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I am very, very torn on the whole thing.
One one hand, he is currently not accused of a crime but is under investigation for a potential part/as a witness in an assault case, thus as it stands he is not guilty of anything. On the other hand, I am very uncomfortable with the fact that women and victims of assault generally could see this as a giant 'fudge you' to them.
NoLimits01
Goran Bunjevcevic
Has anyone seen a copy of the arrest sheet?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Isn't that a little sexist? Why women in particular? And how about victims of drunk driving? Would you bin off Hugo now as well? If you state that Bullet shouldn't pass judgment, how can you? The premise of our legal system, and the legal system that most of the civilised world have adopted, has a lot of merits, because it suspends judgment until a free and fair evaluation has been made. Until then lets not sully people unfairly. If anything you might look at why you've let Hugo off so lightly.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
What 'judgement'?
Which post?
The one you directly quoted?
Why don't you read the post above the one you've quoted?
I know you feel you need to go in and 'defend' Bullet (who I am sure can defend themselves if they felt necessary, not that they would because I've articulated clearly it is an overview reply not a personal one) but seriously, read the longer posts I put up.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
p.s. while I agree with this premise and convention, to believe it is applied fairly and unilaterally in 'most of the civilized world' is royally naive IMO. It should be that way. but it isn't.
Bullet
Andy Thompson
I wrote out that one scenario because that is the rumour. As opposed to a lot of far more incriminating / worse scenarios that Bissouma could be under investigation for. I know your history with this subject, and am not trying to downplay the seriousness of the whole issue of sexual assualt etc.
But from the rumour, Lloris and Ronaldo and Greenwood have a lot more to answer for
It is mostly as fair as it can be. The facts are decided by a jury who are random people selected from the population. They can be of any sex, colour, religious background etc... everyone gets to have a barrister represent them to the best of their ability, no matter how little money you have.
There will always be problems but it's the best we have. I haven't seen anyone come up with a better, no matter how much they complain about it.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Fair play, and I appreciate the discussion we're having as I think the discussion is very important.
It is certainly a situation where we don't know much yet much is 'out there'...Ronaldo is bizarre and somewhat stunning. I hold my hand up here and have to say that until it was repeatedly reported, it was 'elephant in the room' territory which I didn't clearly see. Now I see it, fudge him. Greenwood cooked his own goose the clam, and deserves it. Lloris is a really good example of something which was poor behavior that could've resulted in tragedy, yet we have all moved on. In his case, I would say that he was caught, rightfully punished and has moved on. For me, again personally, it is a different crime albeit still potentially horrific.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think that is a fair comment, albeit my caveat to that is that the same standard of legal representation must be available to all, and it currently isn't. If you can afford private counsel of significant weight and experience, you stand a far greater chance of winning a case, especially if the other party is represented by an over-worked and under-paid public defender.
Anyway, I should probably stop posting for a bit as there is a danger of 'over posting' and driving people away
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Tarnishing someone's name and not respecting the premise of innocence until proven guilty is actually against the legal rights of an individual. It also contravenes international human rights (the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 11 if you wish to look it up!). Giving people who have not been proven guilty fairness and respect is therefore not just moral and ethical, it is a legal right they have too. What an awful world we'd live in if your prospects, reputation, and name could be besmirched without proof.
Would you sign greenwood?
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I don't disagree.
I'd suggest you direct this post to The Sun newspaper.
BTW, Article 11 is consistently contravened. You know it, I know it. Which is why I said I think this particularly situation is extremely hard to discuss from the outside. But it is a topic of discussion already, and as such, I think it is a fair conversation to have.
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SpurMeUp
Les Howe
It is a good question. I don't know the case against him well, but from what I've heard it would not be a sound move by the club. What I would defend is Greenwood's right to defend himself and have a fair hearing. Everyone deserves that.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I would not, no way, fudge him.
I am keenly aware that he has not yet been determined as guilty, and therefore I am applying personal bias based on the social media linked content and details which surrounded the case.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Ronaldo?