World Cup Group D - Uruguay, Costa Rica, England, Italy

[milo]

I'd say that if you put a guts and thunder team up against a talented, tactically aware one, the guts team would get comfortably beaten most of the time. That's assuming the ref doesn't let the guts team do too much damage.

It's been almost a generation since anyone tried to win the PL with a guts and thunder team, and even then they had some talent. None of the top international teams play that way and neither do any late stage CL regulars. There's a reason for that.

There's a lot of wasted energy in guts and thunder. Doing that in this heat would be punishing.

 

[scaramanga]

There's a lot of wasted energy in guts and thunder. Doing that in this heat would be punishing.

Agreed. That's why if there's to be a European winner this year they'll have to be very fit and very tactically disciplined.

 

[milo]

Agreed. That's why if there's to be a European winner this year they'll have to be very fit and very tactically disciplined.

I must admit that I have not seen a big difference in styles of play between the European and South American sides at this tournament. I suspect that the big European leagues hoovering up all of the best players has played a big part in evening this out.

 

[scaramanga]

I must admit that I have not seen a big difference in styles of play between the European and South American sides at this tournament. I suspect that the big European leagues hoovering up all of the best players has played a big part in evening this out.

I meant more in terms of being accustomed to the climate. I suspect as the tournament wears on, the more energetic teams will start to show fatigue. I think teams like Costa Rica will be able to continue to press heavily though.

 

[milo]

I meant more in terms of being accustomed to the climate. I suspect as the tournament wears on, the more energetic teams will start to show fatigue. I think teams like Costa Rica will be able to continue to press heavily though.

It will be interesting to see how it develops. It's a big continent with massive variance in climate, so I do not think that South American teams have an innate advantage but I suspect that you are right when you say that the countries with a warmer climate will have an advantage.

 

[Jordinho]

There's a lot of wasted energy in guts and thunder. Doing that in this heat would be punishing.

Will be interesting to see if the teams the press a lot will be able to keep that up. You'd normally expect the passing sides to be able to conserve their energy better.

 

[DTA]

I'd say that if you put a guts and thunder team up against a talented, tactically aware one, the guts team would get comfortably beaten most of the time. That's assuming the ref doesn't let the guts team do too much damage.

It's been almost a generation since anyone tried to win the PL with a guts and thunder team, and even then they had some talent. None of the top international teams play that way and neither do any late stage CL regulars. There's a reason for that.

You see for me fergies man u showed plenty of 'guts and thunder' or if you like another word passion....wasnt advocating that a team could or should get by on that alone... Just saying that that it can and is a factor in winning looklook @ ;

Chelsea's cl
Greece winning the euros
Man utd with fergie

Guts and thunder doesn't mean hoofing the ball up field and chasing it screaming arghhhhhg, its about putting every ounce ounce of effort in to getting to the ball first, winning that header, blocking that shot, reaching that cross.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Do as I do and bet on England to lose 2-1. Done it both games, won £110 so far.

 

[Heda SPURSCZ]

[video=youtube;xL5Y0ogymEY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL5Y0ogymEY[/video]

 

[Huddy]

Last competitive game in the World Cup with nothing to lose and seemingly a fantastic chance to provide some important tournament minutes to the younger players in the squad who are the future of this team you'd think!? Roy lets sentimentality enter into his thoughts and wastes a starting spot with Lampard, who at 36 is well past his best and very likely to retire after this game.

No question in my mind that Wheelchair and Henderson should be starting not Lampard. If you want to offer him a farewell do it in a bloody friendly in the Autumn!!!

 

[Spurs7891]

Italy are going to be under a lot of pressure against Uruguay, especially if Suarez plays. Italy only need a draw to progress but not sure they can stop Suarez from scoring. They definately need a goal or two from Balotelli or others to get a result against Uruguay. After failing to progress from the group stage as defending champions in 2010, it will be utter humiliating for Italy if they fail to progress again.

It will be interesting which England will turn up against Costa Rica. With only pride to play for, not sure if the England players will take this match seriously. I think Costa Rica are certain to win this group. So can see them relaxing against England.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Italy will probably do what we should've and give Luis a nice big kick early doors. Test that knee out the old fashioned way

 

[Spurs7891]

Italy will probably do what we should've and give Luis a nice big kick early doors. Test that knee out the old fashioned way

I am sure Uruguay will try to do the same to Balotelli and Pirlo. Unlike Uruguay, Italy only have limited options available to them. I think Uruguay will win this match if they score an early goal.

 

[braineclipse]

I am sure Uruguay will try to do the same to Balotelli and Pirlo. Unlike Uruguay, Italy only have limited options available to them. I think Uruguay will win this match if they score an early goal.

Yeah, Uruguay are much more likely to be dirty bastards about it if given the chance. Particularly as De Rossi is out.

I think Italy will have enough going forward to test Uruguay who haven't looked as solid as they did 4 years ago. But Suarez and Cavani can trouble anyone. Easily the pick of the day for games to watch, there will be sweat and tears (and most likely blood)...

 

[braineclipse]

You see for me fergies man u showed plenty of 'guts and thunder' or if you like another word passion....wasnt advocating that a team could or should get by on that alone... Just saying that that it can and is a factor in winning looklook @ ;

Chelsea's cl
Greece winning the euros
Man utd with fergie

Guts and thunder doesn't mean hoofing the ball up field and chasing it screaming arghhhhhg, its about putting every ounce ounce of effort in to getting to the ball first, winning that header, blocking that shot, reaching that cross.

I really don't think England were short on passion in this World Cup at least.

 

[scaramanga]

You see for me fergies man u showed plenty of 'guts and thunder' or if you like another word passion....wasnt advocating that a team could or should get by on that alone... Just saying that that it can and is a factor in winning looklook @ ;

Chelsea's cl
Greece winning the euros
Man utd with fergie

Guts and thunder doesn't mean hoofing the ball up field and chasing it screaming arghhhhhg, its about putting every ounce ounce of effort in to getting to the ball first, winning that header, blocking that shot, reaching that cross.

I think Man U were a very organised, intelligent, group-press team - pretty much the opposite of a guts and thunder team.

Chelsea and Greece I'll give you, but even Chelsea had a lot of talent (they just chose to park it in front of the goal).

If what you're talking about is trying hard, then that's the minimum I'd expect of any professional footballer.

 

[scaramanga]

Heard a good quote about England this morning on the radio. A fan out in Brazil said:

Usually the problem with England is that we let our expectations get too high. This time our expectations were incredibly low, and somehow the team failed to match even them.

=D>

 

[braineclipse]

I think Man U were a very organised, intelligent, group-press team - pretty much the opposite of a guts and thunder team.

Chelsea and Greece I'll give you, but even Chelsea had a lot of talent (they just chose to park it in front of the goal).

If what you're talking about is trying hard, then that's the minimum I'd expect of any professional footballer.

Both those Greece and Chelsea sides were supremely well organized and functioned as units.

I think a lot of "guts and thunder/passion/effort/whatevers" is ascribed based on results.

That Chelsea team needed extra time to progress past the first knockout round against Napoli. One (more) Cavani or Hamsik goal in either of those games (and they had chances iirc) and no one in their right mind would have branded that Chelsea team as a team with a lot of guts and thunder or passion.

Henry, Zidane, Pires or Trezueget somehow finding a way to score an opener against that Greek side in the quarter final and that Greek side wouldn't even be a footnote in football history and no one would be talking about them ever.

Similarly, if Gerrard directed that header anywhere but straight to Suarez, or one of the centre backs decided to track Suarez in the Uruguay game. Or someone on England's left side decided that allowing a free cross towards Balotelli was a bad idea or Cahill (was it?) tracked Balotelli properly and challenged him. Or some number of a host of other things had happened in one of those games surely some English journalist would be gushing about the passion, fighting spirit, chest beating guts and thunder displayed by the English players.

There's probably at least 10-15 teams somewhere in the "in with a shout if things go their way" category behind the real classy teams at any World Cup (and in the Champions League). Just by the laws of averages sometimes some of those teams will do exceptionally well. And like most teams they'll work really hard and be passionate. And people will look to them and think "if they can, why can't we?" whilst ignoring the base rate and the number of "in with a shout" teams that failed in that particular tournament.

My understanding is that unlike a lot of teams that are happy to be in with a shout and go on the occasional run most English people want England to step it up to where not qualifying from a tough group is seen as a shock and getting to the quarter finals is seen as the least they should do. To do this guts and thunder or passion is nowhere near enough. You need better players and frankly I think the whole passion (see Gerrard's recent comments) or managerial (see Hodgson debate) discussions are red herrings.

 

[DHSF]

Now that England are out of the world cup - def Uruguay Italy for me.

 

[Baleforce]

Now that England are out of the world cup - def Uruguay Italy for me.

yep, i'm the curmudgeon at work not watching england with everyone else, have to get to 5-a-side for 7 so will miss some of the 2nd half anyway