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Why can't we close a game?

I'd go along with the direct players idea and add the high line. As someone else said, we have a lot of players, including our fullbacks who want to go forward and will when the chance is presented, even if we are sitting 3-1 up. If we don't score we are hit on the counter and get stretched because of our high line. I'd argue that if we stayed with a solid and tight back four in these situations along with both Mason and Bentaleb sitting deep, we may look more settled.
 
I think yesterday was irrefutable evidence that, for all the counter arguments, in this thread we simply cannot hold on to a lead. And the reason in my eyes is clear - we are shocking defensively. Whether it is tactics or personnel, we are simply abysmal in defence.... and our goals against tally bears that out amply.
 
what i don't get is that poch's a defender himself.

so he must see the problem and know of multiple solutions but has opted not to apply them - for now.
 
Maltese Falcon said:
I think yesterday was irrefutable evidence that, for all the counter arguments, in this thread we simply cannot hold on to a lead. And the reason in my eyes is clear - we are shocking defensively. Whether it is tactics or personnel, we are simply abysmal in defence.... and our goals against tally bears that out amply.
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Chelsea have just lost a 2-0 lead, so maybe it's just like I said, these things happen in a highly competitive league. We hold onto a lead a lot better the majority of teams, hence why we've won the majority of games. Name the games this season we've failed to hold onto a lead. I.e. we were winning and ended up drawing or losing. You're talking crap. Apart from the bit about our defence, we concede far too many silly goals. They haven't actually been that costly for the most part this season in terms of losing leads though.
 
NWND said:
Chelsea have just lost a 2-0 lead, so maybe it's just like I said, these things happen in a highly competitive league. We hold onto a lead a lot better the majority of teams, hence why we've won the majority of games. Name the games this season we've failed to hold onto a lead. I.e. we were winning and ended up drawing or losing. You're talking crap. Apart from the bit about our defence, we concede far too many silly goals. They haven't actually been that costly for the most part this season in terms of losing leads though.
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If I am talking crap then you are on a trip of self delusion, my friend.

You can grab onto how many straws you wish but the facts are the only reason we have not ended up drawing or losing games which were in the bag is either because of Lloris' last minute heroics or else because of some disgustingly lucky cicumstances starting with yesterday's penalty.
 
So if it weren't for the fact we are closing games out then we wouldn't be closing games out?

That's what i have gleaned from this thread tbh - think a better question would have been 'why can we never see a game out comfortably?'
 
Maltese Falcon said:
If I am talking crap then you are on a trip of self delusion, my friend.

You can grab onto how many straws you wish but the facts are the only reason we have not ended up drawing or losing games which were in the bag is either because of Lloris' last minute heroics or else because of some disgustingly lucky cicumstances starting with yesterday's penalty.
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No, you're talking crap. Total brick. We have demonstrated a consistent ability to hold onto and see out a narrow lead situation this season. That's a fact. Not opinion, it's stone cold fact. If we couldn't hold onto leads we wouldn't have won 16 games out of 30 and only lost 9, would we? Not only that, but we wouldn't have only failed to hold onto a winning position once we got into one on a handful of occasions. Its fact. You my friend can't argue that we can't hold onto leads because ITS A fudging FACT THAT WE CAN. Not an opinion a fudging F A C T. That's F. A. C. T. Just in case you can't spell it. Like the other poster says, if you want to argue about why we never look comfortable defending and invite too much pressure on ourselves then fine. But we can and do.hold onto leads.
 
I think closing a game out is where we need experience in the middle of the park, a leader who can calm the ship and tell everyone what to do. Also a couple of decent CB's would be nice.
 
Yiddo said:
I think closing a game out is where we need experience in the middle of the park, a leader who can calm the ship and tell everyone what to do. Also a couple of decent CB's would be nice.
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We looked more solid and less likely to concede with Fazio in the team. I don't think he's as good a player as either Dier or Vertonghen, but he's better in the air, stronger, more of a leader and a better organiser.
 
NWND said:
No, you're talking crap. Total crud. We have demonstrated a consistent ability to hold onto and see out a narrow lead situation this season. That's a fact.

But we can and do.hold onto leads.
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Maltese Falcon said:
... the only reason we have not ended up drawing or losing games which were in the bag is either because of Lloris' last minute heroics or else because of some disgustingly lucky circumstances - starting with yesterday's penalty.
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Since you like facts then please enlighten me how many times we had a two goal advantage this season and how many times we managed to retain it. Then, do the same for our rivals - not even the current top 4 or Liverpool but the minnows from the south coast.

If our stats (rather than the purposely chosen occasional games that you like to quote) - the hard facts you are so obsessed on - back your argument I would be more than happy to concede you are right...
 
Maltese Falcon said:
Since you like facts then please enlighten me how many times we had a two goal advantage this season and how many times we managed to retain it. Then, do the same for our rivals - not even the current top 4 or Liverpool but the minnows from the south coast.

If our stats (rather than the purposely chosen occasional games that you like to quote) - the hard facts you are so obsessed on - back your argument I would be more than happy to concede you are right...
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You're confusing losing a lead with having a comfortable lead reduced, you said we lose leads. We don't. End of. I don't need to back my argument up. Its not an argument. Its fact. Its like asking someone to back up the theory that the Earth isn't flat.

Do we too often switch off at the back when leading by two or three goals, end u up conceding and inviting pressure/making lives hard for ourselves? Yes, that's a valid argument. Do we fail to see these games out as the OP suggests? No we don't. Do we fail to hold onto leads and end up drawing or losing a significant number of games (I.e. out of keeping with the rest of the division?) that we take the lead in as you're suggesting? No, we don't.
 
The first thing we NEED to do is sort out our CM and their inability to give better protect to our back four.
 
I rewatched the last 30 minutes of the Leicester game and after Paulinho came on, we definately settled into a 4312 ish formation with Bentaleb at the base. They didn't really create too much after that apart from Nugent's goal which came from a very direct piece of play and was completely fudged up by 3 of the back 4. We shielded the back four well with Chadli slotting in at right wing and the only other chances they really got were from when he fudged up.
 
parklane1 said:
We still conceded far to many goals for a top team, sort out the CM and we would be far stronger.
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What exactly do you mean when you say "sort out the CM"? Personnel changes? We've conceded the most goals, but also scored the most goals in the league in 2015. Changing the central midfielders (or one of them) might make us more solid defensively, but that doesn't automatically make us a better team overall.
 
braineclipse said:
What exactly do you mean when you say "sort out the CM"? Personnel changes? We've conceded the most goals, but also scored the most goals in the league in 2015. Changing the central midfielders (or one of them) might make us more solid defensively, but that doesn't automatically make us a better team overall.
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As I have said many times we need to include a CM player who offers better protection to the back four, neither Mason, Bentaleb offer this.
 
parklane1 said:
As I have said many times we need to include a CM player who offers better protection to the back four, neither Mason, Bentaleb offer this.
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I think you have hit the crux of the discussion mate (as ever, your observations are always good to read even if I don't always agree)...it comes down to whether we will have a system which accommodates a player of this type, a sitting CM so-to-speak. My feeling is that Poch is building a side and system which does not necessarily have a 'specialist' of this nature, instead expecting fitness, intelligence and mobility to dictate the situation. I believe he is very happy with the terrier play of Mason, the slightly calmer but aggressive play of Bentaleb, the fact that most of the time one sits if the other ventures, and that when the balance and work rate of the team is right, we do just fine. I personally feel that a specialist CM of the nature you are discussing will not happen under Poch.
 
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