Kingdawson
Banned
but if he left half way through the following season after his manager favoured another player don't you get why harry would say that?
anyway i just checked and he did contribute 5 goals in league and cup.
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Who is the best Spurs manager/coach of the Premier League era?
- Thread starter milo
- Start date
but if he left half way through the following season after his manager favoured another player don't you get why harry would say that?
anyway i just checked and he did contribute 5 goals in league and cup.
Kingdawson
Banned
but Jol has gone public and stated that he thought (and thinks) Pogrebnyak is a far better player so it's not really just about the personal reasons if the manager actually think he's getting a superior player is it.
How is that different to our first 4th season - late form saw us above City, etc.
What difference does it make where we were at Week 25 - it is the final table which matters only - else Arry would still be here and we'd be playing the CL
As for the spending figures - you are welcome to look at those yourself if you don't believe me
I voted Harry but it was difficult. I liked Jol a lot more, and we must remember that Harry actually got to choose who he signed, we don't know how Jol would've done with freedom in the transfer market. It's also quite hard to compare taking us from mid-table to UEFA cup standard to from UEFA cup standard to CL standard. Harry I do feel improved Bale, BAE, Huddlestone and Kaboul significantly, whilst I'm not sure Jol can say that about any player.
Of course he'll say that as PR to calm the fans - what happened between the two is irrelevant.
If AVB sold Bale tomorrow and replaced him with Downing and went on record to state he was better - would you believe him and claim we never lost a key player? Please take a minute a think about this for a while.
Fact remains - 2 key players left for whatever reasons
Kingdawson
Banned
Not really...are you forgetting how we started?
Please read the rest of that post - what matters is where we finish, nothing else
Same way those scummers won the CL using thug methods but the fact remains
Kingdawson
Banned
How is the Zamora and Pog situation in any way similar to your bogus Bale and downing comparison? you think the gulf in class is in any way close.
To answer your question i wouldn't believe AVB no but i believe Jol honestly prefering Pog to Zamora. Calm the fans? he said this recently when neither are even playing for fulham football club? what's there to calm?
Not relevant to this thread per se, but I just want to point out what a fantastic job Jol did at HSV. Things didn't go at well for him in his second season at Ajax and this has tainted his reputation, but people aren't fully aware of the job he did at HSV. He gave them their highest points total since they won the European Cup and took them to the 1/2 finals of the UEFA Cup where they were knocked out due to a paper bag on the pitch (unbelievable but true). He also took them to the 1/2 finals of the German Cup. He did this despite having Kompany, De Jong and VDV sold. This is like us selling VDV and Modric this season. We badly under rate our managers for some reason.
It's not a bogus claim - it a simple example to help you understand the point
It doesn't matter what Jol thought of him - he was a key player and even more so the previous season - and left - which proves the original claim of Harry's factually incorrent. Add to that Gera too. The fact you even claim you wouldn't believe AVB but take Jol's word as gospel says it all really.
Why can't you for once admit you were wrong - Steff was right
You're on a wind up here (shocker) again, and I'm done
It doesn't matter what Jol thought of him - he was a key player and even more so the previous season - and left - which proves the original claim of Harry's factually incorrent. Add to that Gera too. The fact you even claim you wouldn't believe AVB but take Jol's word as gospel says it all really.
Why can't you for once admit you were wrong - Steff was right
You're on a wind up here (shocker) again, and I'm done
Kingdawson
Banned
and btw Pogrebnyak scored mored goals in the second half of the season than Zamora did in the first so i guess Jol made the correct decision and i very much doubt he was of the opinion that he lost a "massive player".
Doesn't matter what Pog did - Zamora was a key player for them at the time and even more so - the season before (the actual point of discussion here - nothing to do with that Jol thought of Pog - so stop detrailing the discussion) - ask any FFC fan if Zamora was a key player at the time.
Defoe once scored more league goals than Berbatov for us - who do you think is the more important player?
Just for once in your life admit you were wrong
Kingdawson
Banned
This is the tactic you use. We're talking football but you always feel it necessary to throw in things like this...then you'll claim i'm taking it off topic. Leave steff or anyone for that matter out of it.
How can someone be wrong when it's about your personal opinion ffs? yesterday when countless posters disagreed with your opinion of Llloris and Friedel did that mean you was wrong? no because it's an opinion. How can you admit you're wrong when that is your opinion.
You like to judge things based on how many posters on here disagree with you on here it seems and base that on whether you was right or wrong and that is your perogative but i don't do that. I'll admit i'm wrong when it's factually proven (like your Saudi Sportswashing Machine comment) but you're crying and claiming i'm on a wind up because i believe what Jol said? wowo you've outdone yourself here.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Eh? We in the top 4 for pretty much the whole season? IIRC, in 06/07 we weren't in the top 8 for any period apart from the last 2 or 3 games.
I'm not saying the final positions can be disputed but there is an obvious difference being up there and putting pressure on Arsenal all season and being midtable and knowing you have no chance, even if you rally late to get within x number of points of them. We knew 4th was gone in February in 06/07. We probably were 4th at the same stage of the previous season. It is like a long distance race where you leave the break until too late. Except, not quite, as with us in 06/07 it would have simply become mathematically impossibility to catch Arsenal, long before the final games.
Errr.... I'm saying even by your own figures what I'm saying is accurate. I never even mentioned Villa or Saudi Sportswashing Machine. At least not for the 2005 period you quote those figures from. The other figures just back up my point. Most in and around us had a fraction of our resources and no one would claim Bolton, Reading or Blackburn are bigger clubs.
The original claim stated Jol didn't lose any key players
I pointed out he lost amongst others - 2 'key players' from his squad (Gera and Zamora did leave)
If you think those were 'fringe units' - I'd reccomend you visit a FFC forum, pose the question yourself and report back on your findings so we can resume this debate.
And on that note - I'm off to gym
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Surely what Jol thought counts for more? Gera was such a key player he let him leave on a free to WBA. He had Zamora until the end of January. So more than half the season. So at worst he lost one key player for about 1/3 the season. Ruiz was signed in the summer. Point still remains. Hughes probably had a weaker squad and managed 8th. Jol 9th.
Kingdawson
Banned
He won't get it. in fact not only will he not get it but he'll accuse you of being on the "wind up", and not admitting "you are wrong" when you disagree :ross:
I mean the guy says Jol said that for a "pr excericise" and he was calming the fans down....even though he said it after both players had left? to any rational thinking person does that even make sense?
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I know the votes for Ossie, Ramos and Gross are joke ones, but Gerry Francis deserved some credit. He was one of our better appointments. I remember the year when we signed Armstrong, being pretty high up the table around Christmas. He did well.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
And I'm not even knocking Jol there. I was just saying he's done okay at Fulham but nothing to suggest he'll be in line for the type of jobs he had before. The trouble is people get a bit funny when, rather than comparing Jol with just Glenn Hoddle, George Graham, Christian Gross or Ossie Ardlies, I broaden it out a bit. I think that says a lot.
Gera had 32 games for Fulham the previous season
What Jol says and what Zamora was are two separate aspects