What went wrong?

[DHSF]

DHSF, I know I have been asking for more in the midfield to counter their extra man, but could definately have seen merit to simply swapping Kranjcar for Lennon and giving it a go. If we were still getting overrun, then 15 mins later bring on VdV for Saha.

They are still shambolic in defence. Problem were we were even worse yesterday. Really wish we had a game tomorrow to put it out of our mind and quick.

Actually I think its perhaps the perfect thing to happen to us going into the United game. We have been given a nasty shock to the system. Nothing should be taken for granted from now until the end of the season. Just wish Parker didn't stupidly get himself sent off at the end.

I dont know why Lennon wasnt used at half time, I can only imagine he wasnt match fit to last half an hour (and no point bringing him on when we are 5-2 down).

They were ALWAYS going to score, especially when they made it 2-2 as the momentum was with them, so rather than go defensive we should have just gone fudge it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Feeling a lot better than I was yesterday. Every team has a shocker every now and then, but they seem to be quite frequent at the Emirates. Apart from last season, we tend to play poor at their place. They play better at the lane than we do on their patch. Even when we beat them 2-1 two seasons ago, they went down fighting and would have actually won the game if it wasn't for Gomes playing the game of his life.

 

[punk_is_back`]

Just to say, our pressing game has gone to brick recently. We have turned into the Arsenal of the early season, good in attack but unable to defend or win the ball back. I'm unsure if this is fitness related or tactically related. At times Parker would press, however the Arsenal player was quick enough to pass the ball to another player. But what we should be doing is pressing the player who receives the ball; but we didn't and this led to the midfield getting exposed. Either we all sit or we all press together, otherwise we have a lack of shape. Also we looked knackered after 30 minutes, which begs the question: Why don't we have a dedicated fitness coach like other teams?

 

[Bullet]

As usual the Zonal Marking guy hit the tickle my balls with a feather.

If you naively push forward with a high line like we did, Walcott has got acres to run into vs. an exposed BAE and a knackered King.

At 2-0 we could have sat back and nullified them - they have no way through if you just sit deep against them - they are pretty rubbish on crosses IF you mark up properly.

They don't have a big hulking striker to force a header in, they have bugger all if you sit super deep and properly mark up - i.e. don't let Sandro try to play AM ffs.

 

[thfcsteff]

As usual the Zonal Marking guy hit the tickle my balls with a feather.

If you naively push forward with a high line like we did, Walcott has got acres to run into vs. an exposed BAE and a knackered King.

At 2-0 we could have sat back and nullified them - they have no way through if you just sit deep against them - they are pretty rubbish on crosses IF you mark up properly.

They don't have a big hulking striker to force a header in, they have bugger all if you sit super deep and properly mark up - i.e. don't let Sandro try to play AM ffs.

Absolutely.
Despite not starting 4-5-1, we still found ourselves 2-0 up!
If we'd then switched to 4-5-1, got a hold of the ball and started keeping it, we'd have won comfortably, perhaps we'd even have gone on to score a couple more before the end of the match.
It's something Mourinho would've had the courage to do...that's why he wins things...

 

[braineclipse]

As usual the Zonal Marking guy hit the tickle my balls with a feather.

If you naively push forward with a high line like we did, Walcott has got acres to run into vs. an exposed BAE and a knackered King.

At 2-0 we could have sat back and nullified them - they have no way through if you just sit deep against them - they are pretty rubbish on crosses IF you mark up properly.

They don't have a big hulking striker to force a header in, they have bugger all if you sit super deep and properly mark up - i.e. don't let Sandro try to play AM ffs.

Both 1-2 and 2-2 goals came when we had plenty of players back if I remember correctly.

Sitting back is what cost us, we controlled the game when we were pressing higher up the pitch. After the 3-2 goal we had no other choice than to push up as we were losing the game.

Sitting back to defend is fine, sitting back to defend with Kranjcar and Bale as the wide men, two strikers on the pitch and a central midfield of Parker and Modric who were both on yellow cards - not fine! And they looked consistently dangerous when we did sit back.

 

[gstew999]

Just to say, our pressing game has gone to brick recently. We have turned into the Arsenal of the early season, good in attack but unable to defend or win the ball back. I'm unsure if this is fitness related or tactically related. At times Parker would press, however the Arsenal player was quick enough to pass the ball to another player. But what we should be doing is pressing the player who receives the ball; but we didn't and this led to the midfield getting exposed. Either we all sit or we all press together, otherwise we have a lack of shape. Also we looked knackered after 30 minutes, which begs the question: Why don't we have a dedicated fitness coach like other teams?

I am an American Gooner. Please have mercy on me for posting on your board. :-"

I started supporting Arsenal in 1998 and have never had even the slightest antipathy for Spurs. I think that this is true for most non-English supporters (for both Arsenal and Spurs in reverse). So we usually read the angry, insulting posts and chuckle, as it all seems quite silly to us. TBH, I would MUCH rather you or Liverpool win the title than either of the Manc teams or Chelsea.

Sometimes I find it interesting to read the views of opposing fans either before or after a match.....that is why I am here. In my opinion the post above is the most accurate one that I have read regarding yesterday's match. I don't believe that it was down to tactics, formation or personnel (although Ledley King does not appear fit enough to play a high tempo game). What happened was that two teams of fairly equal talent played, but all 10 players on one side both worked as a unit and worked their socks off. That wasn't the case, at all, for Spurs. This was so easy to identify because we have been the ones playing at an incredibly slow tempo most of the season both offensively and defensively. Our talent level has dropped, but much more importantly our commitment has dropped. For one game that changed and my fingers are crossed that it is not a temporary change. So it is my opinion that all the Arsenal players were ready and committed, but not all of the Spurs players were. Seven players pressing defensively while three do not is actually worse than no players pressing. That is the most common way to lose shape.

Of course I will be rooting against you for as long as we are in with a chance of catching you. But otherwise I wish you all the best of luck and I will give you a piece of advice from someone that was once one of Adebyor's biggest fans. Whatever else you do, do not sign him to a permanent deal. When I found out that he would be joining you on loan it scared the crap out of me. When he has something to prove he is a true force. Whether scoring or not, he can impose his will on the game. This is definitely a characteristic that you did not previously have in a striker. Once he feels that he has arrived, his entire attitude changes. He stops chasing the ball defensively, his effort level drops, he challenges for fewer headers. Real Madrid were smart to take him on loan and then not sign him and you would be smart to do the same. Your club has made a great deal of progress and players like him are what could cause a serious departation.

 

[Bullet]

Both 1-2 and 2-2 goals came when we had plenty of players back if I remember correctly.

Sitting back is what cost us, we controlled the game when we were pressing higher up the pitch. After the 3-2 goal we had no other choice than to push up as we were losing the game.

Sitting back to defend is fine, sitting back to defend with Kranjcar and Bale as the wide men, two strikers on the pitch and a central midfield of Parker and Modric who were both on yellow cards - not fine! And they looked consistently dangerous when we did sit back.

I didn't think we controlled the game at any point really. And nor did we get properly defensively set up.

If we had got 2 solid banks of 4 with no one trying to break forward 40 yards I think we could have seen it out.

We've done it to the arse before.

Imagine them lofting high balls in to Walcott rvp benayoun rosicky arteta gervinho etc. ...

They don't even have bendtner to come on.

 

[hodsgod]

4-4-2 away to them? what a total joke of a formation to pick.

Exactly what I thought, they may be going backwards, but they are still a top 4 team and in CL. They are not mugs and we didnt give them enough respect. Plus a few of our players didn't turn up. Then again that's football and why so many people love it.

 

[totman]

Absolutely.
Despite not starting 4-5-1, we still found ourselves 2-0 up!
If we'd then switched to 4-5-1, got a hold of the ball and started keeping it, we'd have won comfortably, perhaps we'd even have gone on to score a couple more before the end of the match.
It's something Mourinho would've had the courage to do...that's why he wins things...

Your argument has evolved somewhat I see. Now starting with 442 was fine, but Harry didnt have Joses courage to THEN go 451....where we would have controlled the game and scored a few more perhaps.........like we did in the 2nd half, or?

We "found ourselves 2-0 up". Like it.

I was told in this debate that we didnt have the players fit enough for a 451, and thats why it failed 2nd half.

Can someone please explain, if thats the case, how would starting with, or changing to 451 earlier, made any difference. And who you would have played in that role. Remember, fitness was NOT my excuse.

Or better still, just give it up, and accept that whatever formation we played, we would have lost with the lack of effort on display.

 

[yiddo2786]

If 4-5-1 failed so abysmally in the second half, why would it have worked in the first?

 

[DanishWhite]

Truth is, we are in quite poor form.

Stevenage was attrocious, we were lucky to get from Liverpool with a point.

We are just not playing well enough and key players like Parker, Modric, VdV, Ade and Bale are either struggling with injuries or in dire need of a break.

The two early goals where against the run of play, and it had us settle down all too well. After half time we should have easily shut up shop for an even contest of

Arsenal all out pressure vs Spurs deep defence coupled with the Counters of Ade - Bale - Lennon.

We didn't though and that's Harrys fault. Harry's got other problems such as set pieces, I counted 6 (six, sechs, siete, seks) headers Rosicky (!!!!) won in our box, one against Bale, another against Kaboul. That's not good enough. End of story.

 

[ArcspacE]

Truth is, we are in quite poor form.

Stevenage was attrocious, we were lucky to get from Liverpool with a point.

We are just not playing well enough and key players like Parker, Modric, VdV, Ade and Bale are either struggling with injuries or in dire need of a break.

The two early goals where against the run of play, and it had us settle down all too well. After half time we should have easily shut up shop for an even contest of

Arsenal all out pressure vs Spurs deep defence coupled with the Counters of Ade - Bale - Lennon.

We didn't though and that's Harrys fault. Harry's got other problems such as set pieces, I counted 6 (six, sechs, siete, seks) headers Rosicky (!!!!) won in our box, one against Bale, another against Kaboul. That's not good enough. End of story.

Absolutely this. Bar Saudi Sportswashing Machine, we've been poor since Christmas and need to up our game for the run in or end up fcuking it up like countless times before

 

[DanishWhite]

Absolutely this. Bar Saudi Sportswashing Machine, we've been poor since Christmas and need to up our game for the run in or end up fcuking it up like countless times before

My point exactly.

It's lovely seeing us grind points from poor performances, but we can hardly expect to do that vs. Arsenal away.

We need to play better (prettier) and we do need to get the fudge stuck in and organised.

Sandro and Livermore will be absolutely crucial against United. And young Alan Smith on RB vs. Nani, oh dear !

 

[ArcspacE]

Is Walker definitely out of the clash?

Fcuk, Young is probably smoking a cigar right now, watching 40s black and white movies.

 

[DanishWhite]

Is Walker definitely out of the clash?

Fcuk, Young is probably smoking a cigar right now, watching 40s black and white movies.

Well I know it's only an England withdrawal but chances are, he's not fully fit.

Personally I think Corluka was a better foil for Lennon, but even though Walker forces Lennon into the pitch, Lennon is nailed on needed to player against Utd - Rafa and Niko won't do for that position, not if we want to width, pace and support for a crocked Walker or even Smith.

What do people feel regarding Kaboul on RB and Dawson and King in the middle ? Some gamble IMHO.

I just want us to play the 4-4-1-1 with VdV that's served us so very well - that or 4-3-3 without him and a midfield with Modric, Livermore and Sandro.

If Fergie has half a brain intact from the Whisky, he'll play three right across the middle and murder os.

 

[totman]

Truth is, we are in quite poor form.

Stevenage was attrocious, we were lucky to get from Liverpool with a point.

We are just not playing well enough and key players like Parker, Modric, VdV, Ade and Bale are either struggling with injuries or in dire need of a break.

The two early goals where against the run of play, and it had us settle down all too well. After half time we should have easily shut up shop for an even contest of

Arsenal all out pressure vs Spurs deep defence coupled with the Counters of Ade - Bale - Lennon.

We didn't though and that's Harrys fault. Harry's got other problems such as set pieces, I counted 6 (six, sechs, siete, seks) headers Rosicky (!!!!) won in our box, one against Bale, another against Kaboul. That's not good enough. End of story.

Sorry mate, but I think your dissapointment might cloud your view a bit? I said this in the OMT too to your post...

Everton and Toon were out of this world performances imo. City we played well, Liverpool, we had half a squad and no manager, Wigan was a walk in the park, and WBA was well fought deserved win.

This year, I make it Watford, Stevenage and arsenal that were very poor, and Wolves at home should have been better, but by no means on that level.

Two of those were cup games, making it one awful PL performance since Emirates Marketing Project at home (imo)

Bad form, I disagree. Its a tough run, which we all knew was coming, coupled with alot of injuries. This year in the PL our record is WWDLWDWL. 14pts from 24, in a run of games which included Liverpool, City and arsenal away.

Thats not poor form.

 

[DanishWhite]

Toon and Everton "out of the world performences" ?

Erhm I can safely conclude, that you have a different view to performances and what to expect than me.

It's a tough run but we are not playing well either. We lack balance, we lack composure and we lack urgency. Emirates Marketing Project we were good for parts but they still dominated much of the game (expected).

We lost against Arsenal and it was predictable and it was deserved, unfortunately. There are many things to be corrected, a.o. what the heck we do, when plan A is disrupted.

 

[braineclipse]

I didn't think we controlled the game at any point really. And nor did we get properly defensively set up.

If we had got 2 solid banks of 4 with no one trying to break forward 40 yards I think we could have seen it out.

We've done it to the arse before.

Imagine them lofting high balls in to Walcott rvp benayoun rosicky arteta gervinho etc. ...

They don't even have bendtner to come on.

We did from the start. We did quite well actually. But then all of a sudden we looked like we wanted to be Napoli. And we aren't Napoli (for better and worse).

 

[totman]

Toon and Everton "out of the world performences" ?

Erhm I can safely conclude, that you have a different view to performances and what to expect than me.

It's a tough run but we are not playing well either. We lack balance, we lack composure and we lack urgency. Emirates Marketing Project we were good for parts but they still dominated much of the game (expected).

We lost against Arsenal and it was predictable and it was deserved, unfortunately. There are many things to be corrected, a.o. what the heck we do, when plan A is disrupted.

Care to point out what was poor in the Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Everton games? I thought we played those games beautifully, and both were a joy to watch. Our views and expectations do differ, thats obvious.

Maybe one year in the CL led you to believe we would be like Rinus Michels Ajax team this season?

Our expectations are also different, you are right. I expected to be in a three way battle for 4th come March, not sitting 7pts clear in 3rd, and people talking about the title.

As I pointed out, arsenal was the only diabolical PL performance this year. The other two cup games are not even worth talking about, imo.

Where have we played badly, and been at full strength? You dismiss the tough run and injuries like it doesnt actually make a difference, which is just pointless. Considering the situation at Anfield, we played very well to get a point.

City we played very well....dismiss that all you like because we lost, but the fact is, they havent dropped a single point at home, and we very nearly won it...I doubt you would have a single bad thing to say about that game had Defoe scored, even though the rest of the game would have been identical.

Playing "badly", and taking 14pts from 24, with the 3 away games we have had this year and the injuries, suggests to me that you are letting certain results cloud your overall judgement.