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What went wrong today?

the dza said:
It's a fine line between taking players off to try and change the game and leaving them on to build their confidence/hope they produce the moment of quality that they are capable of. For me, Holtby came off the bench really late v Cardiff and changed the game. Today just seemed like Eriksen was playing with a lack of intensity, once it became apparent that it was going to be a hard day at the office. He's a young player though, and he can bounce back and learn from such experiences. IMO, Holtby deserved a chance to build on his pretty decent form and, as a team, we needed players to be at the races.
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I get what you're saying but Holtby can always come off the bench and play on the left, he doesn't have to replace Eriksen all the time.
 
braineclipse said:
1. was true against Cardiff and Norwich (accepting your definition of a DM for the sake of argument). 3 was true against Cardiff. Obviously Cardiff was away, but it played out quite similarly to today with us dominating possession and them being happy to sit back.

Those performances to me illustrate that we should be able to play well with the line-up that started the game today. We didn't, something other than the tactical and the line-up was the problem.
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But we DON'T score enough goals. We beat Crystal Palace and Swansea with a single penalty and Cardiff with a last minute goal.

Goals win matches. We don't create many goals. Not enough IMO.

Again, the main problems stemmed from Thursday's selection.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
I get what you're saying but Holtby can always come off the bench and play on the left, he doesn't have to replace Eriksen all the time.
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That's true. But because we had Naughton at left-back today, I would have wanted us to have a left-footed player infront of him. We did that when we got Lamela on, although imo it would have made more sense to play Lamela on the right and let Townsend provide width down the left.

For games where we have width on the left provided by Rose, I wouldn't mind seeing Eriksen and Holtby link up in the same side at times.
 
Pirate55 said:
But we DON'T score enough goals. We beat Crystal Palace and Swansea with a single penalty and Cardiff with a last minute goal.

Goals win matches. We don't create many goals. Not enough IMO.
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But in both the Cardiff and Norwich games we created a lot of chances. With the system you're blaming for our failure. I struggle to see how that can be, although I think I grasp the concept that goals win matches.
 
the dza said:
That's true. But because we had Naughton at left-back today, I would have wanted us to have a left-footed player infront of him. We did that when we got Lamela on, although imo it would have made more sense to play Lamela on the right and let Townsend provide width down the left.

For games where we have width on the left provided by Rose, I wouldn't mind seeing Eriksen and Holtby link up in the same side at times.
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I agree fully.

Lamela is a left footed player, but he doesn't strike me as a left winger at all. And realistically he didn't offer much more width than Sig did all things considered seeing as he preferred drifting inside and wasn't looking to get around the outside.
 
braineclipse said:
I agree fully.

Lamela is a left footed player, but he doesn't strike me as a left winger at all. And realistically he didn't offer much more width than Sig did all things considered seeing as he preferred drifting inside and wasn't looking to get around the outside.
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agree with this entirely

i think with siggy and lamela we would have to commit to have very forward thinking fullbacks that have a good brain.

as of right now it all stems on the kind of system AVB is willling to play.
 
It was clearly AVB's fault today imo.

* He started Defoe because he thought Spammers were expecting Soldado so he'll spring a surprise. It was a thick as pig **** decision from him and made absolutely no sense at all (especially considering our excellent run of results in the league prior to this catastrophe).

* Naughton at left back is perfection. If Rose is injured we play Vertonghen there and play someone next to Dawson at CB. AVB decided to go the season with 1 lb...a joke (hopefully we can recall BAE in Jan).

* He needs to start integrating Lamela in the starting X1 now. He didn't want to change a winning formula i give him that...we've lost now...play him.



My opinion is that Dembele and Sandro is our best cm partnership. I haven't seen anything from Paulinho (minus his excellent knack of finding space in the final third) to tell me he's better than Sandro. I said before that Paulinho seems to struggle on the ball..he doesn't look comfortable....nah i prefer the dembele and Sandro partnership.
 
africanspurs said:
agree with this entirely

i think with siggy and lamela we would have to commit to have very forward thinking fullbacks that have a good brain.

as of right now it all stems on the kind of system AVB is willling to play.
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What do you think our best 11 is if everyone is fit?
 
shaney said:
How many times are people going to keep on repeating this in a desperate attempt to praise AVB. Last season was a FAILURE because we finished 5th - the "record" number of points was .........er..........pointless. Its league position every year that counts and its the total number of points that season against the total amount your rivals have got. Who cares that we got a record number of points when it meant failure.

Wouldnt we all rather get less points this year and finish top 4.
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It's just that getting a record number of points in the league means it is, in terms of points, our best season in this league. I am not saying it's not the success we wanted and that mistakes weren't made, but if you put together a Tottenham Hotspur in the Premier League table AVB last season would be top. And that is something to take into account - especially as it wasn't with a squad of his making.
 
braineclipse said:
But in both the Cardiff and Norwich games we created a lot of chances. With the system you're blaming for our failure. I struggle to see how that can be, although I think I grasp the concept that goals win matches.
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Read my first post again. I said the roots of our poor performance was Thursday.

The two DM system is just far too defensive against the lesser teams IMO and restricts our attacking options leading to too few goals.
 
Come on Daniel Levy, let's bring back Harryyy, we'll go wild wild wild, we'll go wild wild wild.
 
Kingdawson said:
What do you think our best 11 is if everyone is fit?
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i was the first guy to say these words

"sandro. first name on the team sheet".....i stand by this to this day

lloris in goal...undisputed keeper for us

walker. The best of a ****ty set of options for AVB's system.......has to play, unless lennon can show us something that i have no right to think he can show us...in being our version of Lahm (disclaimer...never going to happen and i am just letting my mind go to its base and stupid elements there)

Dawson....Our own version of D line governing Terry. Very determined, has a knack of being in the right place at the right time. always good for an ariel challenge...very defensively aware

Vertonghen......our ball player from the back. very much an underrated asset in getting the ball to attcking zones, like the overground getting you to Kings cross ST pancras versus the NOrthern line underground. Also a good defender

Rose. The only left back we have that can mimic the kind of width walker provides

sandro. First name on the team sheet. Playing DM at the base

Paulinho....Box to box midfielder. Probably the only purhcase we bought who does exactly what it says on the tin. Very solid all round player. really like him

Eriksen......from what i can tell he is the only guy we have that 'can' provide that bit of magic in the final third. not that he will always be about that...but he shows he can work that final third like its a job he has done before...as opposed to people being alien to that position.

right wing forward....Lamela. this is only because of the style AVB wants to play and the fact that lamela doesnt seem to have a right foot thats reliable (from what little i have seen). I've seen enough to know that those hyping him up to the point of deep space nine as to what he would deliver us this season are full of ****, they dont actually know what he will become for sure, they are hoping...completely different, so am i for that matter. what i have seen is actually a mature thinking and good and solid technical player. .....who is extremely intelligent in comparison to the average premier league player. He is quite frankly the best inside right playmaker / forward that we have. This is assuming that his technique on the shot is even 1/4 of what the hype on him is

Siggy:-Inside left wing forward....the guy's position is sorted. he isnt a playmaker primarily...he CAN do it , but IMO it isnt his best attribute and he can really make the team pendantic and obvious from that position. He is much more a finisher of move's or a final cross / pass kind of guy. Tell him to control our offensive routes to get in behind the defense then all of a sudden he doesnt offer those bottom line stats that make him worth what he should be worth. with siggy these i am always sure we are good for a goal

defoe...up front. his movement is better and he works better WITH the team, they dont have to constantly be working FOR him. able to hold up the ball to

positions that are up for grabs

Dawson..could be kaboul there
Eriksen..could be lamela. i think lamela is much more a playmaker than a winger
Defoe...adebayor or soldado
Siggy...chadli or townsend


Edit:- something else to consider is how well of attacking playmakers both eriksen and lamela are. they could feasibly be played in any of three behind the striker at which point the people like siggy could be very advantageous indeed if they were the finishers through the middle
 
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Whether we like it or not this result has been coming. We've not been anywhere enough ruthless in our games.

Im also sick of this bull**** excuse about the team needing to gel- how are they supposed to gel when we clearly dont have a system in place for the team to get used to each. Its down to avb to provide some structure for the Lads but im not sure he has it in him.

Everyone says he tactically astute but the big calls so far have found him wanting a bit.

We should go 433 with sandro paulinho and holtby in the centre with townsend left lamela right soldado upfront and work from there.

We're kidding ourselves if we think we'll finish top four this year. Both liverpool and everton dont have the distraction of europe that we have and that and both having relativrly settled sides means we will struggle for top four.
 
you had me up until Defoe there Affy. Defoes movement is non existent, so many times it looks like he's actually trying to take up the worst position possible when we attack.
 
Kingdawson said:
It was clearly AVB's fault today imo.

* He started Defoe because he thought Spammers were expecting Soldado so he'll spring a surprise. It was a thick as pig **** decision from him and made absolutely no sense at all (especially considering our excellent run of results in the league prior to this catastrophe).

* Naughton at left back is perfection. If Rose is injured we play Vertonghen there and play someone next to Dawson at CB. AVB decided to go the season with 1 lb...a joke (hopefully we can recall BAE in Jan).

* He needs to start integrating Lamela in the starting X1 now. He didn't want to change a winning formula i give him that...we've lost now...play him.



My opinion is that Dembele and Sandro is our best cm partnership. I haven't seen anything from Paulinho (minus his excellent knack of finding space in the final third) to tell me he's better than Sandro. I said before that Paulinho seems to struggle on the ball..he doesn't look comfortable....nah i prefer the dembele and Sandro partnership.
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I dont agree with 1). I think Defoe played as AVB thought he deserved it. I dont blame AVB for that move.

I definitely blame AVB or whoever with the decision to get rid of BAE, Ridiculous ****in ridiculous. Naughton has been utter ****e and offers us absolutely nothing.

I agree with the Paulinho bit - time to bring back Sandro for Paulinho. Paulinho remind me a bit of Zokora, obviously better though. But Paulinhos passing is wayward, his shooting is ****e but he can, as you stated, find space and breaks up play relatively well.
 
billyiddo said:
you had me up until Defoe there Affy. Defoes movement is non existent, so many times it looks like he's actually trying to take up the worst position possible when we attack.
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its better than it was in the past AND he gets involved in play AND despite the people he is scoring again..he is our in form striker with a wide range of finishing techniques.

if you down play defoe's form due to opposition then please do it for everyone including your golden boy erik 'wow, he should never be criticsed for nothing' lamela.

as for soldado, boy needs to earn his place. first defoe gets a shot to be the first striker to score from open play after 8 games with solly coming off the bench...then ade....with solly coming off the bench

solly doesnt get in the starting 11 for me. show me something solly my man, i'm not getting analy probed just cause you're a sexy bit of skirt from spain....i'll leave that to people that think if you have an exotic name then you must be good
 
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