What went wrong today?

[indianspur]

How about the idea that when we try to integrate a new player like Lamela into the team it makes sense to let him play in a position that he's used to and finds natural?

We can of course try something else with them, but surely we should look to try stuff that makes sense. Who do you think compares well to Lamela and Eriksen that play in wide "traditional" wide roles? For me there's a bunch of players just in the PL that I think are comparable to both that primarily play as "inverted wingers" when they play in wide roles. Silva, Nasri, Coutinho and Mata for example. For us in the past we've seen both Kranjcar and Modrid to well on the left and look comparably useless on the right. The now typical approach to moving a number 10 style player wide is to allow them the opportunity to cut inside on his stronger foot to better utilize their ability, this to me makes sense. Moving a number 10 style player wide to hug the touchline makes a lot less sense to me.

Edit: This is also my answer to "why would it do my head in"? Just to add, of course if it worked that would be good and I would be happy. Just like I would have been happy if Kranjcar on the right had worked like a charm. Just like I'm sure you'll be happy if it works out like a charm with Lamela on the right, but now you would prefer to see something else.

i didnt say that....under AVB we dont play with players hugging the touchline. The wide attackers if thats what they are called are tucked in. AVB is not going to play 442 with wingers. So if he sticks to 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or 4-2-1-3, whatever it is, the likes of Lamela, Holtby, Eriksen, Townsend, Chadli, Siggy will always be more towards the middle that out wide. There is no width from them

 

[Jordinho]

under AVB our wide attackers dont play on the flanks.....they are tucked in. Everything is goddam central](*,)

It's primarily the FBs that will create width the way we are set up. If Walker puts in a cross I expect Siggy/Chadli to be at the far post.

 

[Modric THFC]

Naughton can't start at left back again.
Everyone accepts thats he's a huge problem as we go forward.

Yet AVB will probably play him instead of Vertonghen.

 

[braineclipse]

i didnt say that....under AVB we dont play with players hugging the touchline. The wide attackers if thats what they are called are tucked in. AVB is not going to play 442 with wingers. So if he sticks to 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or 4-2-1-3, whatever it is, the likes of Lamela, Holtby, Eriksen, Townsend, Chadli, Siggy will always be more towards the middle that out wide. There is no width from them

Surely Lennon plays a lot wider than Sig for example and wider than what we've seen from Lamela so far.

What is the advantage to playing Lamela on the left and Eriksen on the right if they will be more towards the middle than out wide? I see a clear advantage from them playing on opposite sides, being able to cut inside onto their strongest foot.

 

[braineclipse]

Naughton can't start at left back again.
Everyone accepts thats he's a huge problem as we go forward.

Yet AVB will probably play him instead of Vertonghen.

We don't know that.

AVB preferred Vertonghen several times last season. It probably depends on the other centre back options. So far Kaboul's been injured and it's very early for Vlad. A month or two from now that might change.

 

[Jordinho]

If we had a third CB we knew was fully fit and ready for the PL I'd drop Dawson before Naughton. With our high line we need more pace to stop potential counter attacks from the other team.

 

[braineclipse]

If we had a third CB we knew was fully fit and ready for the PL I'd drop Dawson before Naughton. With our high line we need more pace to stop potential counter attacks from the other team.

Depends on who we're playing. Against Chelsea or a team of their quality I would agree with you. Against a team like West Ham, particularly at home, I wouldn't agree with you at all.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Naughton can't start at left back again.
Everyone accepts thats he's a huge problem as we go forward.

Yet AVB will probably play him instead of Vertonghen.

naughton is primarily there to defend though and no goals have come via his mistakes or down his side since he came in. He isn't the solution by any means but he isn't the problem. The problem is letting Benny go and playing a player in front of him whose first instinct is to head to the penalty spot.

It's a quick fix to play Townsend there if Rose is out or. Holtby at least

 

[braineclipse]

naughton is primarily there to defend though and no goals have come via his mistakes or down his side since he came in. He isn't the solution by any means but he isn't the problem. The problem is letting Benny go and playing a player in front of him whose first instinct is to head to the penalty spot.

It's a quick fix to play Townsend there if Rose is out or. Holtby at least

I agree fully.

Surprised we haven't seen Townsend on the left flank when Rose has been out.

 

[Modric THFC]

naughton is primarily there to defend though and no goals have come via his mistakes or down his side since he came in. He isn't the solution by any means but he isn't the problem. The problem is letting Benny go and playing a player in front of him whose first instinct is to head to the penalty spot.

It's a quick fix to play Townsend there if Rose is out or. Holtby at least

Great against Chelsea or Arsenal but against West Ham he had nothing to do in a defensive sense. We pretty much played with 3 centre halfs and one full back.

 

[indianspur]

Surely Lennon plays a lot wider than Sig for example and wider than what we've seen from Lamela so far.

What is the advantage to playing Lamela on the left and Eriksen on the right if they will be more towards the middle than out wide? I see a clear advantage from them playing on opposite sides, being able to cut inside onto their strongest foot.

from the towards the middle they can attempt to skip past the full back/ or in between the full back and centreback, and whip in a cross with their strongest foot or even shoot at goal if the space opens up

 

[braineclipse]

from the towards the middle they can attempt to skip past the full back/ or in between the full back and centreback, and whip in a cross with their strongest foot or even shoot at goal if the space opens up

Why is it a benfit for them to be on the traditional sides when trying to move in between the full back and centre back or when trying to have a shot at goal if the space opens up?

Do you not agree that when cutting inside it's better to cut inside onto your stronger foot?

The only benefit I can see is the crossing, but if they're not playing wide that benefit is largely negated as their opportunities to do that won't be all that frequent.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Great against Chelsea or Arsenal but against West Ham he had nothing to do in a defensive sense. We pretty much played with 3 centre halfs and one full back.

Yet we got beat 3 nil! We played so badly defensively in that game personally I'm writing it off

I'm not a fan of naughton but I'm no fan of Siggy so far or Chadli for that matter but there all gonna have a part to play.


I just thought it was odd fr someone to single out a player who did his job as well as he could and was in their as a makeshift solution. Yep rose is much better and I think we have sorely missed him, but against wet spam we created very little of note and the creative players were very very poor.

 

[indianspur]

Why is it a benfit for them to be on the traditional sides when trying to move in between the full back and centre back or when trying to have a shot at goal if the space opens up?

Do you not agree that when cutting inside it's better to cut inside onto your stronger foot?

The only benefit I can see is the crossing, but if they're not playing wide that benefit is largely negated as their opportunities to do that won't be all that frequent.

i dont not agree with the need to constantly cut inside. The space is congested, the opposition have no problems defending against it, and quite frankly our attacking play is dull, uninspiring.

Il say it now that I appreciate that we win games under AVB and we are challenging the top 4, but the way we are doing it, the football in the final 3rd is very average

we dont score enough goals, we dont play in enough balls into the area for anyone to got on the end of. We shall see where this plan takes us. Having high passing percentages and high shots on goal percentages is all well and good, but when the passes are mainly in defensive and middle of the pitch areas, and when the majority of the shots are from outside of the area, I think in time this way of playing will prove to be our downfall.

Imo, i think we need to change. What im suggesting is to try something different. It might not work, but maybe it will. We wont know if we dont try.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Something that I haven't seen mentioned either.... Was there any bookings? We looked quite lacksidaisical in the tackle

 

[braineclipse]

i dont not agree with the need to constantly cut inside. The space is congested, the opposition have no problems defending against it, and quite frankly our attacking play is dull, uninspiring.

Il say it now that I appreciate that we win games under AVB and we are challenging the top 4, but the way we are doing it, the football in the final 3rd is very average

we dont score enough goals, we dont play in enough balls into the area for anyone to got on the end of. We shall see where this plan takes us. Having high passing percentages and high shots on goal percentages is all well and good, but when the passes are mainly in defensive and middle of the pitch areas, and when the majority of the shots are from outside of the area, I think in time this way of playing will prove to be our downfall.

Imo, i think we need to change. What im suggesting is to try something different. It might not work, but maybe it will. We wont know if we dont try.

I agree about the change thing. The thing that needs to change is that our £35m record signing, up and coming superstar needs to be on the pitch from the start alongside our other best players in the PL in a position he's comfortable in. Controversial stuff I know...

 

[mattls]

I agree about the change thing. The thing that needs to change is that our £35m record signing, up and coming superstar needs to be on the pitch from the start alongside our other best players in the PL in a position he's comfortable in. Controversial stuff I know...

Been going to the Lane for over 15 years now to every home game and i'm not sure Lamela would have done well in this derby from what ive seen of him so far he doesnt like it up him and he was scared of putting in a change against Anzi and hammers were very physical but he can spot a pass i'm sure he'll grow the more games he plays, he must be close to taking Sigi's place because it's only Sigi's goals keeping him in the team right now.

I think AVB had two options on sunday. 1. Holtby should have come on much earlier and replaced dembele or paulinho both of these guys were far too predestian in possession. I'd have even started with holtby and or made that change at half time as we'd only created 2 chances in the half.

2. He could have tried switching to 4-4-2 I remember when we played QPR last season at home and they did the same thing as west ham and flooded the midfield and we barely created a chance in the first half. AVB then put on another striker at half time and went 4-4-2 and we won the game 2-0.

I think he needs to consider changing from his preferred 4-3-3 on some occasions to open teams up, particually at home. Considering he's 'meant' to be a masterful tactician he didnt have any answers against Big Sam on the tactics or subs which as a few of you have mentioned is a bit of a worry.

 

[africanspurs]

I agree about the change thing. The thing that needs to change is that our £35m record signing, up and coming superstar needs to be on the pitch from the start alongside our other best players in the PL in a position he's comfortable in. Controversial stuff I know...

how come you mentioned the price? From what i can tell from the lamela clan that distorts the whole purpose of why we signed him. he isnt a superstar at all by any means yet. he is quite frankly still a project..an could be a long one if we dont get it right

the reason i see him as a starter is due to the formation we play and his footballing intellect..the fact that he is a team player

the irony is that the way we employ our formation...slow build up and possesion based...is the style that gave lamela his worst season in roma....his best season was when roma played a more up tempo and transition game. (yep, been doing a bit of reading)....by best and worst i mean statistical contribution. but for the formation he was probably fine

 

[El Guepardo]

I think we'll start both Sandro and Lamela against Villa. I think AVB will use this defeat, in addition to the break, in order to start fresh with a new hand.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

I'd start Lamela, Holtby, Sandro, Soldado and Kaboul (if fit) next game.