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What went wrong today?

Furious that Defoe started yesterday. Soldado is class, no doubts about it. He'd have buried that chance at start of second half. Cant believe 26m striker get dropped after not scoring in 3 games (one, Cardiff, very unlucky not to score). Anyone knocking him is mad. Let the team gel and he'll get more and more chances. How many since Van Persie has scored now? Im sure hes not getting dropped anytime soon.

If AVB had started Soldado and we still lost, you know people would be complaining he should have started Defoe since he is our top scorer now. It is a lose-lose situation for AVB. IMO, we can't fault either of our strikers. Instead you have to blame the midfield for not creating enough chances. Look at Arsenal, they don't have a top class striker but cant stop scoring goals because their midfield always create lots of chances for them.
 
Furious that Defoe started yesterday. Soldado is class, no doubts about it. He'd have buried that chance at start of second half. Cant believe 26m striker get dropped after not scoring in 3 games (one, Cardiff, very unlucky not to score). Anyone knocking him is mad. Let the team gel and he'll get more and more chances. How many since Van Persie has scored now? Im sure hes not getting dropped anytime soon.


Not exactly comparable. A player who has yet to show he can do it in the Premier League compared with Robin Van Persie. A player who has proved himself time and time again in the premier league.


Soldado wouldn't have been in the position to do what Defoe did, i've not seen him make many runs like that. He seems far more about losing his marker and slotting in crosses, which isn't helped by us not putting many crosses in.


We're creating chances, as shown by the one Defoe missed, I just hope one of the two of them (or even Adebayor) comes good soon.
 
If AVB had started Soldado and we still lost, you know people would be complaining he should have started Defoe since he is our top scorer now. It is a lose-lose situation for AVB.

Well yeah its lose-lose in your scenario cos we would have lost either way and AVB is accountable.

That being the case, I'm not overly concerned with who started out of Defoe or Soldo cos I think there's a good chance we would have lost with either.

Be that as it may, I'm really hoping that some are indeed right in that WH were 'very good' etc. Because obviously - and presumably very fortunately - we won't be playing WH every week and so we will get to ply our wares against lesser teams/performances. ;)
 
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I think we have to be more worried about Eriksen's form than the demoralising defeat to West Ham. IMO, he has been poor since that outstanding performance against Norwich in his first match for us. Our attacks relies almost entirely on Eriksen's creativity. We will be in trouble if Eriksen has another poor match like against West Ham.

I don't get this...

Our attacks relies almost entirely on Eriksen's creativity (I'm accepting that for the sake of argument). Eriksen has been poor since the performance against Norwich.

Am i the only one of the opinion that there's a basic flaw in this thinking. If we're relying on one player to that extent we will always become predictable and relatively easy to defend against. Saying that he had a poor game is, to me, a bit like saying that Soldado (or Defoe) are poor in matches where they get no service. I think we've seen similar with VdV and Bale in that role.

Surely the answer must be to look to other players to get involved and help get the best out of Eriksen, or Holtby, or whoever plays that role?

I think we should look more to the players flanking Eriksen, and to some extent the two behind him, and ask what are they doing to help get the best out of Eriksen in the role he plays.

Apart from his goals Sig hasn't been great this season, I don't think he's gotten involved enough. I thought Chadli looked promising and was forming a decent relationship with Rose up until his injury. He hasn't been flash, but he was getting involved (imo). For me he should start against Villa.

Townsend has looked good doing what Townsend does. Taking players on, trying to get around the outside, cutting inside going for goal. But he's not a combination player at all, at this point at least. How many times has he gone for the one or two touch quick pass in to Eriksen? Where are the quick one two passes to get others involved?

If we keep playing Sig and Townsend on the flanks with Eriksen in the centre I think the pattern will keep repeating itself. Sig will score some goals, or at least put in some good finishes. He's good at that, getting into position and he's a very good striker of the ball. Townsend will start scoring a few goals at some point, he will get some assists and he will probably continue to impress, but he won't bring the best out of Eriksen. Eriksen will continue to impress when he's given space, either through poor/average defending from the opposition who don't mark him out of games or by us getting an early goal changing the game situation. He will continue to look unimpressive against West Ham and other teams that defend well and try to mark him out of the game. Probably to the point where he is replaced by Holtby, or Sig in that role, of course that won't fix anything.

For me, Lamela should play so that an understanding might start to develop between our two most creative players (him and Eriksen), so that interplay between them might start to happen to get the best out of both of them instead of having individuals doing what individuals do. Either that or we need to bring in a better, and quicker, passer into the centre. Either by going 4-3-3 with Holtby and Eriksen ahead of one sitting player, by bringing Holtby in alongside a defensive midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 or by waiting for Capoue to return as I think he's a more effective passer than our other 3 obvious central options.

Although I also think getting Chiriches in at the back instead of Dawson might also help as proper ball playing centre backs can compensate for a lack of creative passing in the centre of midfield.

/rant (sorry if incomprehensible, too long, too ranty or overall useless as a post. Not the most clearheaded morning around this one)
 
For me right now our attacking three should be Holby, Eriksen and Townsend.

Sigh has scored some goals but the reality is he offers very little all round creativity and can't take a game by the scruff of the neck. Chadli hasn't done anything of merit so far but deserves more time

My concern is how we get Lamella used to this league when he currently looks a passenger. He plays a very simple pass and then disappears. That's not the player we signed at all and he is playing with what seems to be a lot of fear in his game. He looks like he needs a game where he can really get going bug were not in a position to take a chance on that at the moment.

I'd also start Sandor or Capoue with either moussa or Paulinho. Not moussa and paulinho if one of our stoppers is available. That would have been much more balanced in hind sight against the spam
 
i think we should give this a real go, and not just for one game.

.................Soldado
Lamela.........Holtby.......Eriksen

its simple, the aim is to feed Soldado as much as possible. Why the fcuk spend 26 mill on Soldado and then fail to set the team up to get the best out of him
 
i think we should give this a real go, and not just for one game.

.................Soldado
Lamela.........Holtby.......Eriksen

its simple, the aim is to feed Soldado as much as possible. Why the fcuk spend 26 mill on Soldado and then fail to set the team up to get the best out of him

why spend 30m on Lamela and play him out of position? why spend 11m on Eriksen and play him out of position?
 
Furious that Defoe started yesterday. Soldado is class, no doubts about it. He'd have buried that chance at start of second half. Cant believe 26m striker get dropped after not scoring in 3 games (one, Cardiff, very unlucky not to score). Anyone knocking him is mad. Let the team gel and he'll get more and more chances. How many since Van Persie has scored now? Im sure hes not getting dropped anytime soon.

This...so good at bringing others into the game too...
 
why spend 30m on Lamela and play him out of position? why spend 11m on Eriksen and play him out of position?

they are 21. Kids.Are you telling me that for the rest of their careers they are going to play exactly where they have been playing up to now?

Is there no way we can try something else with them?

Are WE playing the exact systems and styles they have been playing up till now?

Finally, I am not against players switching positions at times during the game. If anything, it will confuse the opponents. Eriksen can switch with Lamela, Lamela with Holtby, Holtby with Eriksen. Lets play our most inventive players and allow them to supply our new striker. Its not rocket science
 
they are 21. Kids.Are you telling me that for the rest of their careers they are going to play exactly where they have been playing up to now?

Is there no way we can try something else with them?

Are WE playing the exact systems and styles they have been playing up till now?

Finally, I am not against players switching positions at times during the game. If anything, it will confuse the opponents. Eriksen can switch with Lamela, Lamela with Holtby, Holtby with Eriksen. Lets play our most inventive players and allow them to supply our new striker. Its not rocket science

Let's surprise them all and play Eriksen as a sweeper :lol: I'm sorry, but half our problem is that we lack balance in the side. In fact, I'd say it's our biggest problem. And by balance I don't mean on the flanks, I mean players complimenting each others styles etc. For example I don't think Dembele/Paulinho are a balanced partnership at all. Eriksen is a number 10. At a push he may be able to play central midfield. On the flanks? No thanks.
 
If we end up staring Lamela on the left and Eriksen on the right it would do my head in.

why would it do you head in? what if it worked? Look at Bale. Starts at left back, then onto left wing, then he was played on the right, then in behind the striker, then a completely free role........thats what you can do with young players, try them in various positions until you find the right solution for them and the team
 
Let's surprise them all and play Eriksen as a sweeper :lol: I'm sorry, but half our problem is that we lack balance in the side. In fact, I'd say it's our biggest problem. And by balance I don't mean on the flanks, I mean players complimenting each others styles etc. For example I don't think Dembele/Paulinho are a balanced partnership at all. Eriksen is a number 10. At a push he may be able to play central midfield. On the flanks? No thanks.

under AVB our wide attackers dont play on the flanks.....they are tucked in. Everything is goddam central](*,)
 
Anyone else think our tempo and thinking we can just stroll to a win has been influenced by the 4 European games we've played this season? The way we played on Sunday was the exact same way we've been playing in Europe yet still won.
 
they are 21. Kids.Are you telling me that for the rest of their careers they are going to play exactly where they have been playing up to now?

Is there no way we can try something else with them?

Are WE playing the exact systems and styles they have been playing up till now?

Finally, I am not against players switching positions at times during the game. If anything, it will confuse the opponents. Eriksen can switch with Lamela, Lamela with Holtby, Holtby with Eriksen. Lets play our most inventive players and allow them to supply our new striker. Its not rocket science

How about the idea that when we try to integrate a new player like Lamela into the team it makes sense to let him play in a position that he's used to and finds natural?

We can of course try something else with them, but surely we should look to try stuff that makes sense. Who do you think compares well to Lamela and Eriksen that play in wide "traditional" wide roles? For me there's a bunch of players just in the PL that I think are comparable to both that primarily play as "inverted wingers" when they play in wide roles. Silva, Nasri, Coutinho and Mata for example. For us in the past we've seen both Kranjcar and Modrid to well on the left and look comparably useless on the right. The now typical approach to moving a number 10 style player wide is to allow them the opportunity to cut inside on his stronger foot to better utilize their ability, this to me makes sense. Moving a number 10 style player wide to hug the touchline makes a lot less sense to me.

Edit: This is also my answer to "why would it do my head in"? Just to add, of course if it worked that would be good and I would be happy. Just like I would have been happy if Kranjcar on the right had worked like a charm. Just like I'm sure you'll be happy if it works out like a charm with Lamela on the right, but now you would prefer to see something else.
 
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under AVB our wide attackers dont play on the flanks.....they are tucked in. Everything is goddam central](*,)

But Townsend put in any number of good crosses on Sunday and no one got on the end of them. Do we have the striker to benefit from out and out wingers?
 
Anyone else think our tempo and thinking we can just stroll to a win has been influenced by the 4 European games we've played this season? The way we played on Sunday was the exact same way we've been playing in Europe yet still won.

good point
 
But Townsend put in any number of good crosses on Sunday and no one got on the end of them. Do we have the striker to benefit from out and out wingers?

i dont know if you saw Soldado in Spain....He is very good at attacking balls played in from the sides
 
Anyone else think our tempo and thinking we can just stroll to a win has been influenced by the 4 European games we've played this season? The way we played on Sunday was the exact same way we've been playing in Europe yet still won.

It was not comparable to any of the Tblisis games, I don't think it was comparable to Tromsø either personally. Might have been comparable to Anzhi, but that was a completely different match situation than West Ham.

Even when 5-0 up on aggregate we came straight out and attacked Tblisi at home with tempo and determination, in my opinion we didn't against West Ham.
 
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