braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I don't think there's a problem with the work rate and I don't think that's what Ange has called out? (please correct me if I'm wrong).
He's called out an unacceptable level of performance and excuse making, no?
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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo
- Thread starter tommysvr
- Start date
He's called out an unacceptable level of performance and excuse making, no?
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
This!
He is calling out courage, or lack thereof. Werner was a fudging coward last night! I think we will come to learn that Ange has also called out both Sonny and Maddison for not showing more courage at key moments. I think Bentancur was an issue last night, and Biss was poor too. All probably have decent running stats but in key moments they were callow. I've seen Johnson getting it - he came off sick against Chelsea so I doubt he was 100%...
...why can't Munn 'place' an interview with The Athletic reiterating club course? Indirect support? It feels like the manager is being hung out to take it. Maybe that's on him; maybe he is a lone wolf. But I don't see anyone coming in to back him except for a player or two.
I saw some posts suggesting his comments in one of the recent press conference clips were a dig at the players not giving 100%
Mikey10
Pedro Mendes
Suits someone’s narrative for him to be the latest fall guy.
Steff you've been making the argument recently that the squad is threadbare, that we're suffering lots of injuries and so players are being over worked through a lack of options - do you think maybe this might be a reason for some fatigue or levels dropping?
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Quite!
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I agree yes, and in that sense it is possibly unfair to coat one player over another. I do think fatigue is intrinsic. The penalties against Chelsea? Tired minds for sure. The current situation? Probably contributes to callow decision making. And in that sense, Ange calling out Werner is not great. It was most unlike him TBH, as others have said perhaps a sign he is really feeling it. One moment against Rangers annoyed me as much as any other; in the first-half, Gray cut out a move and carried the ball up the right. He carried it. He carried it. He beat two players and in the end was squeezed out and lost it. To my memory no-one dropped short to make themselves available for an easy pass, give and go, anything. He was just left being positive. It's easy to play the game from the couch, but shouldn't one of our experienced midfield core be taking responsibility to offer help there? Interested if anyone else remembers this, and if so, what their take was. I have not watched it back yet...
Baleforce
Les Bennett
I do remember it, he carried and gave it away a few times.
Yes someone should have offered, I think they might have done so, but if he didn't have a pass on, he should have just stuck it down the line for someone to chase into the corner.
Time and time again we fail to follow best practice.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
If like to hear the actual question that Ange was responding too, to understand the context
Maybe it was a specific Werner question about him being subbed at half time
It’s bad how often we get the answer but not the question
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
There's a difference between running and running. You can run further than any other during a game, but if it's without any purpose or intensity, you'll be second best to everything.
glasgowspur
Andy Thompson
Seen this a few times with son tbh, Udogie comes out with the ball and is waiting on son going ahead of him or to make an angle and all he does is run beside Udogie.
Some players are just not getting the system.
Yiddo
Jack Jull
The problem is having 11 players who can’t control and pass a ball to each other. The quality has been shocking and this comes down to the players. You take responsibility on that pitch and if it isn’t working out you change a few things as a collective. Ange doesn’t coach these players to misplace a 5 yard pass, he doesn’t coach them to turn back and pass backwards, you can see he gets just as tinkled off as we do when we play it backwards. This is all down to the players when we have the ball, ok the tactics are at fault for us being open at the back but if we didn’t keep giving up the ball in stupid positions trying to make passes my 12 year old can make, we wouldn’t have as many problems.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Said it many times, the quality of our passing can be really bad
And we do have some players who have woeful control for their level
I think Ange is wrong in this instance
- His players run their ass off for him, they cover more miles, they win more balls in top 3rd, they generally out-possess most teams, they score
- He has 14 (or so) available senior players with the injuries/suspensions
- Porro, Udogie, Son, Solanke, Deki, Johnson are being criminally overworked
To fudging accuse these guys of not being brave when your system is putting untenable asks on them, and you are making no fudging compromise, no adjustment, no "hey, you have approval to play it safe for a 15 minute spell in the match, to conserve energy, to manage the game" is borderline criminal
I don't know what you think Munn is supposed to do? the dreaded vote of confidence? or is he really going to say is we lose the next 10 matches 4-3, we still have his back?
Ange is the fudging definition of live by the sword, die by the sword. I admire it but even pre the last 3-4 games he's put himself in position where genuinely I think he has to win a cup to stay after end of season, lose a few more games and drop out of the cups? it becomes way more short term.
And here in lies the rub. You've got players playing in the Premier League that "can't control and pass a ball to each other". Only they can can't they? Against City. Against Villa, they showed that not only can they control and pass the ball to each other, they can do so in tight spaces being pressed by some of the best opposition the league has to offer. Not to mention what they've done at previous clubs to make us want to spend big on them.in the first place. But yes, in many games, we look incapable of doing the basics right. But a lot of that is set up, coaching and putting players in the best situation to be confident. It's not just a spurs thing. How often do you see a team get battered continuously then sack their manager and the same players suddenly start winning. Chelsea are a case in point. Oh haha they've brought in all these £100m players and they're all dogs**t. Change the manager and who is laughing now? I fully believe that if our players weren't so isolated all the time by everyone bombing forward when we win the ball back and if our players weren't so out on their feet by halfway through the second half they'd be able to control and pass fine....
^^^^
Case in point, why do some of these players look better when they come back from injury (Son, Johnson, etc), fatigue is a huge issue right now
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Yes, I think Ange is frankly taking the p in a way...i guess we'll see on Sunday night how damaging his switch to calling out the players is (remember it was only a few weeks ago after the Ipswich game he said "it's all on me"...why change now? Pressure and he seems to be crumbling under it...)
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Sonny is a massive issue for Ange. He has to play him yet he does not fit the system. I used to think we were not hitting him early enough, the truth appears to be that he does not have the 90 min legs/speed for the system.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
It is not, to my eye, a physical accusation. It is one based in conviction. I have said (so obviously agree) that fatigue is an issue in all areas of the game, physically and mentally...but the main issue here is in the numbers versus who the manager trusts versus where we are in this rebuild versus what he did not get in the summer. He fudging asked for a LCB, he also asked for another right-winger. He got neither. Anyway, that debate can continue I'm sure...
And regarding Munn. Did I say 'vote of confidence'? Nowhere did I say that. What I suggested was that he plant a story on the long-term objectives of the club, including the accent on youth signings in the summer. Re-emphasize the direction of traffic. NOT a 'we believe in Ange' thing at all. More a calm overview of what the plan has been, where it is, and where it is going. That will remind people there is a cohesive flow and plan in place. The Athletic or a Sunday paper, that sort of thing. The only reason not to do something like that is because Ange doesn't want it/won't accept it. Albeit it would not be about him more than what this club believes in direction-wise...