Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[SteveAWOL]

Why did you go for game week 9 ?

Crystal Palace was the last time we had our first choice defence play the entire 90 minutes plus a strong bench, think that the entire squad was available apart from Son and Spence who was out of favour back then anyway.

 

[Raziel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1880229291050381615

This is a concern

We are all wondering if he's dead man walking, the concern is when the players start believing it.

 

[thfcsteff]

That's simply because we now have 3 revenue streams as opposed to 2 (like we use to and like most other clubs).

So if we don't make Europe...not a big thing, we have the safety net to take a longer view.

It's not a lesson lol....it's a benefit of the long term plan.

Logically? Yes. But mate...Daniel has never been able to resist meddling. That would be the big shift here IMO.

 

[Bishop]

I'm a bit tired of the injuries excuse. Romero has been a liability this season and given away 3-4 goals. VdV is a very good player but he is error prone. The big thing he gives us is pace both from a defensive and offensive perspective. Udogie has been mediocre for a year. None of their replacements have cost us (m)any more goals than those lads really.

Vicario is a good keeper but we haven't really missed him from a goals against perspective. Forster cost us two goals really I can recall - they were both in a game we won. Vicario might have stopped Woolwich's winner the other night admittedly but Kinsky looks a good find to me.

You could argue stability could give us cohesion - I'm not so sure. I haven't seen any sign of it so far in Ange's reign.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do but I don't expect a massive uptick in results when those boys come back. I think we'll pick up 3-6 points from the next two games and hopefully average 1.5 points a game or thereabouts for the remainder of the season. A cup is Ange's best chance of survival and that really depends on us being "on our day" at precisely the right times.

The primary reason we are where we are isn't bad luck IMO.

The crazy thing is the same people who are lamenting Romero's injury absence are typically the same people who were squarely putting the blame for our early season goal concessions on him. So when he was playing it was his fault and now he's not playing he's one of the catalysts for our poor form. You almost couldn't make it up.

The same was the case for Udogie, he was getting plenty of (valid criticism) now he's a missing starter.

I always said this season our defensive frailties aren't individualised, they are system caused. It doesn't matter who we play as we've now seen, we concede silly goals consistently.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Crystal Palace was the last time we had our first choice defence play the entire 90 minutes plus a strong bench, think that the entire squad was available apart from Son and Spence who was out of favour back then anyway.

I’d say Villa we were only missing VDV so a similarl missing number to palace
It’s say the better comparison is first 10 vs last 10 games myself
But fair play for doing the leg work

 

[Baleforce]

Logically? Yes. But mate...Daniel has never been able to resist meddling. That would be the big shift here IMO.

Is it meddling when you own the place?

He’s responsible for everything, literally everything. He’s top of the chain of command.

 

[SteveAWOL]

I’d say Villa we were only missing VDV so a similarl missing number to palace
It’s say the better comparison is first 10 vs last 10 games myself
But fair play for doing the leg work

It’s difficult to find a decent sample size to make a comparison between how our first team fares compared to our backups, as just like the previous year van de Ven’s hamstrings packed up at the start of November and then our treatment room once again needed a revolving door.

We started last season so well it seemed obvious that once the injuries cleared up we’d be challenging for the title again but after 10 games of this season, with a largely fit squad at his disposal, we were still only 7th having lost 4 of those matches.

Looking at weeks 11 though to 21 of last season, when we didn’t have Europa League + Carabao Cup games to stretch our squad, compared to this I noticed that we scored and conceded almost an identical number of PL goals; although we thankfully only sank down to 12th place in the form table.

Hopefully next season our squad will have enough strength in depth to cope better with November and December.

 

[veryoldspur]

I must be irrational then.

Not saying you can't improve it, but I think this squad is actually pretty damn good compared to what Jose and Conte had to work with.

I would have said at the start of the season that the GK, defence and midfield is the strongest area. The forward line has it all to prove. I still think that's the case, based on what I've seen from the lads that have stepped into GK, Def and MF roles during the injury crisis.

I would say that even with the present injuries we can present a top 5 or 6 side. The reality is that Ange is unable to get the best the best out of them because of his playground tactics, which are also causing fatigue and damaging the players. In brief, if we lose the ball in mid-field we are doomed because most of the time we have 8 players pushing forward. On match of the day (or another football program) there was a clip where Bergval was on his own in the middle of the park surrounded by 5 Arsenal players. Our tactics are so naive it amazes me

 

[thfcsteff]

Is it meddling when you own the place?

He’s responsible for everything, literally everything. He’s top of the chain of command.

Yes it can be. Just because you own something, it does not mean you should involve yourself in the details of every aspect of it. In fact, far wiser to hire properly in the first place and delegate wisely where necessary. Business-wise? He is the absolute best of the best. Here's hoping he has made the right choices in Munn and Lange, and not just hired sophisticated 'yes' men; he needs people in those positions who will do the right thing whether he likes it or not, and he needs people immediately around him to cease fluffing his pillows and allow him to let that be. It seems like he might well be there...again, I think in so many (business related) ways he is outstanding and the absolute best. I would also never question his dedication.

 

[thfcsteff]

Since the injuries this season i believe we've been running at relegation form? The table has us in 14th but in reality the injury spell form is a faur bit worse than that position and as bad as it can be, I don't think that's in any way excusable or a fair reflection of the players available. Again i want to caveat it by saying I'm just assessing performance rather than calling for sackings or what not - i do think there's a few posters suggesting that this level of performance is excusable - i just can't abide that opinion.

No-one finds the levels of performance acceptable.

The discussion is whether the long-term destination is worth the pain we're in the middle of, whether this manager is the man to continue leading us towards that destination or whether there is someone else who can do a better job in these circumstances, whether this manager will show that he is the right man when the current circumstances regarding injuries and fatigue are not nearly as much of an issue, whether Levy is actually going to stick with the long-term destination plan or not, and how long we hold our nerve before saying enough is enough and making a managerial change regardless of the future and plans.

I don't think there's a single person who find the results (and by proxy) performances acceptable, but there are a few (myself included) who are looking to apply all possible contexts to where we find ourselves.

 

[thfcsteff]

The crazy thing is the same people who are lamenting Romero's injury absence are typically the same people who were squarely putting the blame for our early season goal concessions on him. So when he was playing it was his fault and now he's not playing he's one of the catalysts for our poor form. You almost couldn't make it up.

The same was the case for Udogie, he was getting plenty of (valid criticism) now he's a missing starter.

I always said this season our defensive frailties aren't individualised, they are system caused. It doesn't matter who we play as we've now seen, we concede silly goals consistently.

And I think even crazier is that people believe it's all about how we're actually defending with these players or not. I mean, of course that's a major factor, but really, the BIGGEST loss to the team in not being able to regularly field Vic, Romero, VdV and Udogie, is that we actually lose a lot of our attacking play. We don't progress the ball as quickly or as skilfully from the back without them, and that hinders every single aspect of what we do.

 

[Gazza]

No-one finds the levels of performance acceptable.

The discussion is whether the long-term destination is worth the pain we're in the middle of, whether this manager is the man to continue leading us towards that destination or whether there is someone else who can do a better job in these circumstances, whether this manager will show that he is the right man when the current circumstances regarding injuries and fatigue are not nearly as much of an issue, whether Levy is actually going to stick with the long-term destination plan or not, and how long we hold our nerve before saying enough is enough and making a managerial change regardless of the future and plans.

I don't think there's a single person who find the results (and by proxy) performances acceptable, but there are a few (myself included) who are looking to apply all possible contexts to where we find ourselves.

Wow you have impressed me very much, very elite, in a few… everyone else sounds so dim in comparison. Overlord teach me such wisdom. Such brilliance.

 

[thfcsteff]

Wow you have impressed me very much, very elite, in a few… everyone else sounds so dim in comparison. Overlord teach me such wisdom. Such brilliance.

...you're welcome my beloved (yet possibly dim?) child, any other elite levels of omnipotence I can bestow upon you, do let me know LOL...
Hugs,
The Overlord

 

[Bishop]

And I think even crazier is that people believe it's all about how we're actually defending with these players or not. I mean, of course that's a major factor, but really, the BIGGEST loss to the team in not being able to regularly field Vic, Romero, VdV and Udogie, is that we actually lose a lot of our attacking play. We don't progress the ball as quickly or as skilfully from the back without them, and that hinders every single aspect of what we do.

but when those players were available people were blaming them at various stages for our goal concessions and the poor results. Now they are not available supposedly not having them is the cause of our poor form and results. Do you not see the irony?

 

[Muttley]

Yes it can be. Just because you own something, it does not mean you should involve yourself in the details of every aspect of it. In fact, far wiser to hire properly in the first place and delegate wisely where necessary. Business-wise? He is the absolute best of the best. Here's hoping he has made the right choices in Munn and Lange, and not just hired sophisticated 'yes' men; he needs people in those positions who will do the right thing whether he likes it or not, and he needs people immediately around him to cease fluffing his pillows and allow him to let that be. It seems like he might well be there...again, I think in so many (business related) ways he is outstanding and the absolute best. I would also never question his dedication.

I actually think some of Levy's business skills are overstated on some aspects, but taken for granted in others. Football is a money train and if you're THFC the revenues will keep coming in whether you do a good job of sales and marketing or not. Levy has taken his £30m and watched that money train turn it into a billion, or close. Still though, over the 25 years I've looked at the football operations and seen it so massively sub-optimal at times. There have been so many underperforming P&Ls in his tenure. Of course, we're very lucky that the revenue keeps trickling in and covers the mistakes. In another job, you end up being Blockbusters and confined to history.

On the other side of the role, we couldn't have had anyone better. The steady increase in things like sponsorship deals and the partnerships we've entered into, not to mention the infrastructure. That side has been a joy to watch.

I actually think Levy is better at business than leadership though. He has come up short a fair few times on the latter.

 

[Muttley]

I would say that even with the present injuries we can present a top 5 or 6 side. The reality is that Ange is unable to get the best the best out of them because of his playground tactics, which are also causing fatigue and damaging the players. In brief, if we lose the ball in mid-field we are doomed because most of the time we have 8 players pushing forward. On match of the day (or another football program) there was a clip where Bergval was on his own in the middle of the park surrounded by 5 Arsenal players. Our tactics are so naive it amazes me

There is definitely an element of fan sentiment from people like me that Ange has made his own squad smaller than it is, and contributes to the collective injury and fatigue issues. His belief system on the game will always require a large, talented squad. He's definitely not like Poch who can work with a core 15 or 16 and get them seriously punching.

I don't think his tactics are as bad as you make out there. There is real goodness in a lot them. Some just need refining, in my opinion.

 

[Mikey10]

I would say that even with the present injuries we can present a top 5 or 6 side. The reality is that Ange is unable to get the best the best out of them because of his playground tactics, which are also causing fatigue and damaging the players. In brief, if we lose the ball in mid-field we are doomed because most of the time we have 8 players pushing forward. On match of the day (or another football program) there was a clip where Bergval was on his own in the middle of the park surrounded by 5 Arsenal players. Our tactics are so naive it amazes me

On the live TNT coverage of the Arsenal game they also highlighted what was happening to Bergvall a couple of times.

 

[thfcsteff]

but when those players were available people were blaming them at various stages for our goal concessions and the poor results. Now they are not available supposedly not having them is the cause of our poor form and results. Do you not see the irony?

Yes in that context. And Romero made several very costly individual errors which have cost us in the region of 6 points IMO. But again, I believe the biggest loss we have had from them as a collective is what they offer to the team dynamically in terms of progressing the ball and playing it from back to front. Romero is nearly impossible to replace in that regard, and who's going to replicate VdV's Old Trafford sprint from back to front? Those things have cost us massively.

 

[glasgowspur]

but when those players were available people were blaming them at various stages for our goal concessions and the poor results. Now they are not available supposedly not having them is the cause of our poor form and results. Do you not see the irony?

It's all become very simple hasn't it.

Changing the manager is not going to stop Vic being as issue at corners, Romero switching off or becoming a card magnet, he can't heal vdv hammies any more than he can speed up the development of gray and Bergvall to where we hope they are going to be.
Just like he can't turn the clock back to son in his heyday a new manager isn't going to be able to change Maddison's habit of disappearing for large chunks of the season.

And keeping ange isn't going to do any of that either.

We're a mess (mainly of our making), but we are a mess with a route and a plan, it's a medium to long term plan, it's not going to be smooth regardless of the manager.

I've all but checked out of the debate, it's pointless, the club will do what they feel needs to be done, nothing we can do about it, why stress about it, I may not like their solution but I'll still support the badge.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

It's all become very simple hasn't it.

Changing the manager is not going to stop Vic being as issue at corners, Romero switching off or becoming a card magnet, he can't heal vdv hammies any more than he can speed up the development of gray and Bergvall to where we hope they are going to be.
Just like he can't turn the clock back to son in his heyday a new manager isn't going to be able to change Maddison's habit of disappearing for large chunks of the season.

And keeping ange isn't going to do any of that either.

We're a mess (mainly of our making), but we are a mess with a route and a plan, it's a medium to long term plan, it's not going to be smooth regardless of the manager.

I've all but checked out of the debate, it's pointless, the club will do what they feel needs to be done, nothing we can do about it, why stress about it, I may not like their solution but I'll still support the badge.

I'm not sure I agree 100% with that to be honest. For instance, Mourinho had similar problems with Dier 'switching off' and costing us points, but that was mainly a focus issue. We were inviting pressure back then, and that required a mental effort from the defenders in order to be able to deal adequately with every situation.

However, in Romero's situation, his mistakes could be down the intensity and reptition of efforts throughout the game, because we play with a much higher line. A different system with a mid or low block might solve this particular problem (I say might because maybe he had the same issues in Italy, I never saw him there). Same with Maddison. A different manager could decide to play him as a left-wing playmaker and this could change everything.

There's also a lot that could be happening in a player's private life that could enhance or reduce his performances. Nothing is set in stone. Spence's revival is a proof of that.