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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

DeanoAustin said:
No, I wouldn't say terrible. We did well to weather the early storm I thought without much threat to our goal. But we carried almost no attacking threat first half despite getting a goal. I think when you hear Ange speak, the performance becomes more worrying because we either didn't do what he asked or couldn't.

Second half, like I said earlier, I thought the subs were mad but they did actually improve things IMO. However, we still weren't the better team, just better than the first half.

When you put that together with our run of form, it's worrying. And, you're dead right about the players. You see how many fans are split on whether Ange can be successful. The players are only human - some of them will be wondering at this point.
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If the players are wondering they should also be looking in the mirror
 
Mcfee said:
I can’t see him here beyond the summer. Unless we win a trophy and even then I’m not sure if keeping him would be wise.
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I think he's here until the summer unless we fall into a relegation battle. Wouldn't be surprised if he's let go in the summer.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think it's fair of them to question the manager's methods. Yes, they also need to look in the mirror but if pundits and fans are split on Ange's approach and likelihood of success, you can't expect players to be any different.
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But pundits and fans are generally… not the experts
It’s why they are what they are
I’ve not yet seen, from memory , another coach question the methods
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think it's fair of them to question the manager's methods. Yes, they also need to look in the mirror but if pundits and fans are split on Ange's approach and likelihood of success, you can't expect players to be any different.
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Have to also remember a lot of the more senior players have played probably played under many more managers that seem much more 'realistic/pragmatic' in their approach than Ange and are likely thinking "WTF is this" like most of the fans and pundits.
It then makes sense that seemingly those who haven't been here as long and thsoe who are the least experienced players are more likely to be the ones still seemingly putting in the most effort
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But pundits and fans are generally… not the experts
It’s why they are what they are
I’ve not yet seen, from memory , another coach question the methods
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Not sure how relevant that is: When has another coach questioned another coach publicly?
Surely that's not the done thing and coaches go out there to outdo other coaches on the training pitch and in the games themselves
 
glorygloryeze said:
Not sure how relevant that is: When has another coach questioned another coach publicly?
Surely that's not the done thing and coaches go out there to outdo other coaches on the training pitch and in the games themselves
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When they are going interviewed
Or when they are unemployed and working on sky
Instead it’s ex players who never had the balls to coach
 
glorygloryeze said:
Have to also remember a lot of the more senior players have played probably played under many more managers that seem much more 'realistic/pragmatic' in their approach than Ange and are likely thinking "WTF is this" like most of the fans and pundits.
It then makes sense that seemingly those who haven't been here as long and thsoe who are the least experienced players are more likely to be the ones still seemingly putting in the most effort
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Our senior players are son and Maddison, two attacking players, they should be revelling in this, instead they've disappeared.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But pundits and fans are generally… not the experts
It’s why they are what they are
I’ve not yet seen, from memory , another coach question the methods
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Players don't like to lose games of football and despite us knowing they should look in the mirror, many won't

Their egos will dictate that the person they look at and the common denominator for channelling blame is the manager.....always. I don't like it but its easier to sack a manager than an entire team and thats what players bank on
 
Grays_1890 said:
Players don't like to lose games of football and despite us knowing they should look in the mirror, many won't

Their egos will dictate that the person they look at and the common denominator for channelling blame is the manager.....always. I don't like it but its easier to sack a manager than an entire team and thats what players bank on
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It is
And that’s why the club have to have a plan and the courage to stick to it
That way the player aspect is less important
 
As I said on the other thread, the concern is that whichever 11 players take the field they can't seem to execute to Ange's tactical plan from game to game. Is it perhaps 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 that we're currently seeing. Now you can expect sub-optimal results due to the injury issues, but where I'm left scratching my head is why Ange then tells us repeatedly that the players couldn't execute to the game plan. It's now been 18 months and surely the tactical system should have some consistency about it.

This is becoming my elephant in the room with Ange. Is it just that the system is too complex to adopt? Is it that the players aren't bought into this plan? Is it that the tactical system is so predictable that the other managers are just easily negating it?

Perhaps it is just too soon. Perhaps it just clicks at some point. It is 18 months now though.
 
glasgowspur said:
Our senior players are son and Maddison, two attacking players, they should be revelling in this, instead they've disappeared.
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Plus Bentancur, Romero, Solanke, Werner etc

When the defensive shape seems completely bonkers it effects everyone eventually.

Son is on a downward curve due to age. He's trying but the body doesn't lie (he's put in the hard yards for years and like Kane before him there's only so much the body will allow you to do afetr a given point. Smart use of ageing players would mitigate somewhat).
Maddison is flaky i agree. However, he and many of the others have probably seen much more understandable tactics that make sense AND show results. The longer many of these players have played under Ange the worse they have gotten, ditto our results.
How long before Solanke looks really crap after running around endlessly and getting little reward/service? He's 27 and cannot do that for much longer...
 
Muttley said:
As I said on the other thread, the concern is that whichever 11 players take the field they can't seem to execute to Ange's tactical plan from game to game. Is it perhaps 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 that we're currently seeing. Now you can expect sub-optimal results due to the injury issues, but where I'm left scratching my head is why Ange then tells us repeatedly that the players couldn't execute to the game plan. It's now been 18 months and surely the tactical system should have some consistency about it.

This is becoming my elephant in the room with Ange. Is it just that the system is too complex to adopt? Is it that the players aren't bought into this plan? Is it that the tactical system is so predictable that the other managers are just easily negating it?

Perhaps it is just too soon. Perhaps it just clicks at some point. It is 18 months now though.
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I think an issue with the system is our natural instinct to protect things. Yeah it's all well playing it to the keeper then he knocks it into your feet with three men on you and your back to goal in training etc. In a real match when it leads to a chance, or your Bissouma and it leads to a goal, you're naturally gonna not want to do it time after time after time.

You actually need to have that Cole Palmer low intellect to not be affected by what years of coaching is telling you is wrong and also your own instincts. His game plan goes against common sense at times which is why 1000's of people are in Park Lane are screaming to get the ball up the pitch. Too ask players to continually do something that is not working/works once or twice a game is a tough sell. As results get worse it's an even tougher sell. Add to that fact is that unless forced we play exaclty the same way every game. So not only is it not working, the opposition can predict what you're going to do before the ball has even reached you. Very tough.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But pundits and fans are generally… not the experts
It’s why they are what they are
I’ve not yet seen, from memory , another coach question the methods
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No coach is going to criticise a current manager's methods. Most pundit's opinions carry weight because they've generally played at that level. They really know what's what.

I'm not saying Ange is right or wrong - that's just an opinion. But people's opinions are split on Ange. It's only natural that some of the players will be thinking the same way.

I read a piece on Lloris' book and he very much drove at "Levy didn't have the mentality for winning in sport" and "We just stopped listening to Conte after a while". They are opinions I naively sometimes don't think a player will have but Lloris did and you can bet some of the other players did too. As did fans and pundits. They're only human...some of them will be wondering about Ange.
 
fernadez said:
I think an issue with the system is our natural instinct to protect things. Yeah it's all well playing it to the keeper then he knocks it into your feet with three men on you and your back to goal in training etc. In a real match when it leads to a chance, or your Bissouma and it leads to a goal, you're naturally gonna not want to do it time after time after time.

You actually need to have that Cole Palmer low intellect to not be affected by what years of coaching is telling you is wrong and also your own instincts. His game plan goes against common sense at times which is why 1000's of people are in Park Lane are screaming to get the ball up the pitch. Too ask players to continually do something that is not working/works once or twice a game is a tough sell. As results get worse it's an even tougher sell. Add to that fact is that unless forced we play exaclty the same way every game. So not only is it not working, the opposition can predict what you're going to do before the ball has even reached you. Very tough.
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Thank you for spelling out clearly what i tried to wrt to the senior players drop-off vs the youngsters. See post above @glasgowspur which i think aligns with what i posted to you
 
Bedfordspurs said:
When they are going interviewed
Or when they are unemployed and working on sky
Instead it’s ex players who never had the balls to coach
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I've seen Pardew question him. I know it's Pardew but he has a decade or so managing in the league and with a bit of relative success. Keane has driven at it too on the "Stick to Football" podcast by having a go at "managers who blindly stick to a philosophy especially when they don't have the players".

You listen to interviews, like Rice last night, and he spoke about how they targetted us.

People within the game are questioning Ange's methods. Doesn't make them right or wrong. They're just opinions but our players will likely have similar opinions.
 
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