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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Personally think at best we are treading water

You are correct about Europe and Cups, however our league form is poor for the squad we have.

Still playing in patches only for most games and the few games we don't are the exception.

The people around me where not happy with Ange at all and where talking about replacements - this is only one spot of the ground of course and I'm not suggesting it is the whole ground, but it's a big difference from the last time I was there.

Without it sounding like we can never change the manager it is easy for us to keep making the demands to and making it sound like its simple and a fix all solution, the issue is that its not, the Spurs project has been failing badly since Poch who ironically never won anything (not a dig at him). I was under no illusions given the state of the squad when he came here and the history of failings on how big this job is and still is, I know it goes against modern football but this job was always going to be longer term, the alternative is we change the manager every year and half and hope that one sticks and works, for me thats not a plan thats hope.

I am fed up with the hire and fire culture TBH, its let us down longer than Ange has
 
We’ve gone backwards with regard to the number of soft goals we concede imo.
We've conceded 13 goals in the league this season in 11 games. If my maths checks out if that remains consistent we'd end up conceding 45 goals this season (rounding up from 44.9)

Last season we conceded 61.

If we've gone backwards with regards to conceding soft goals compared to last season we've definitely improved quite a lot on conceding non soft goals.

I think we've improved defensively. We've conceded the same number of goals as Chelsea and City. Only one more than Arsenal.

We also have the second best goal difference in the league and have scored the most goals in the league.

I think some fine margins going against us and some poor performances somewhat skews the impression of our performances overall.
 
Without it sounding like we can never change the manager it is easy for us to keep making the demands to and making it sound like its simple and a fix all solution, the issue is that its not, the Spurs project has been failing badly since Poch who ironically never won anything (not a dig at him). I was under no illusions given the state of the squad when he came here and the history of failings on how big this job is and still is, I know it goes against modern football but this job was always going to be longer term, the alternative is we change the manager every year and half and hope that one sticks and works, for me thats not a plan thats hope.

I am fed up with the hire and fire culture TBH, its let us down longer than Ange has
I don't think Ange is going anywhere till the Summer unless it gets really bad, so he will get that time to get more consistency

Two seasons is enough time to see a good amount of improvement
 
Without it sounding like we can never change the manager it is easy for us to keep making the demands to and making it sound like its simple and a fix all solution, the issue is that its not, the Spurs project has been failing badly since Poch who ironically never won anything (not a dig at him). I was under no illusions given the state of the squad when he came here and the history of failings on how big this job is and still is, I know it goes against modern football but this job was always going to be longer term, the alternative is we change the manager every year and half and hope that one sticks and works, for me thats not a plan thats hope.

I am fed up with the hire and fire culture TBH, its let us down longer than Ange has
Fully agreed. Just to add to your point we went really young with most of our summer transfer business. That's of course a decision one can agree or disagree with, but that's what we did.

That can be backing the manager, but only really if he's given time.
 
Agree about consistency/playing in patches, but I don't agree with the 'should be better with the squad we have' argument that gets bought up.

On here alone, different posters are saying we need to prioritise different areas of the team for upgrading - that in itself suggests our squad isn't that great. I've said a few times, I really don't think our squad is as good as many make out, we have a fair few younger players who could in the future be really good but right now? Hardly any you players you could hang your hat on for having consistently good performances, when your most senior player and captain is non existent for large parts of games that in itself is a worry. Looking at it individually:

Vicario - Decent shot stopper, but couldnt say he's that reliable
Porro - Great going forward but defensively suspect
Romero - Nowhere near WC, and nothing to do with Ange. He has been making these fudge ups well before Ange got here, on his day great but not consistent
VDV - We all love him, but defensively he has made plenty of errors. Yes his pace gets him out of trouble but he can't always count on that. Still young with amazing potential though
Udogie - Great potential but for a long time now he hasn't been particularly good.
Bissouma/Bentancur/Sarr - All the same problem, good at some things not good at others. None consistent enough and none at a level good enough for where we want to be. Although will say, Bentancur was close to being there pre injury
Maddison - Same as above really, on his day great quality but not consistent
Kulu - Has been our best performer, usually can rely on him to put in a good performance and high effort levels
Werner - Ideal Ange type winger, has pace and can beat his man. But of course can't finish so not the desired output
Son - Our captain, not inspirational and can't even lead by example on the pitch anymore having lost his burst of pace. Can't beat a man out wide, if only we could combine his finishing with Werner's other assets
Odobert - Looks to have good potential to me, but at this stage that's all it is
Solanke - Like him a lot, and he performs to a good standard now
Johnson - Still feel there could be more to come from him, and at least shows some decent numbers statistically. But we don't play to his strengths and doesn't impact games enough
Richi - I like him and would be great back up/rotation option but can't stay fit

Then we have a handful of young players who have really good potential, but require experience meaning there are going to be lots of bumps in the road for them and us.

So at least to me when I look at our squad I'm not sure why anyone would expect us to be anything more than challenging around the top 6, especially with having Europe aswell? I don't see us with any real top stars to drag us across the line in games we are poor, we have some good players and some really talented ones who arent there yet but I do think some people are overestimating where we are with this squad right now. And that is not me suggesting Ange doesn't have areas he can improve on, but I believe this is a journey where we still have a way to go with a clear long term vision in terms of our recruitment and this will be the case regardless of who is in charge......
I agree, I don't think the squad is as good as people make out, but it's also not lose to and be outplayed by Palace/Ipswich bad.

I don't think it's 17 wins in 39 games bad either.

We've lost as many games as Leicester / Ipswich and Everton so far this season and if the current points per game stays we will end up around 10th.

How many of those underperforming players would look better in a different system/formation?

I was a fan of our younger player approach this summer, let's give them some minutes.... it's partly what turned it around for mopo
 
I agree, I don't think the squad is as good as people make out, but it's also not lose to and be outplayed by Palace/Ipswich bad.

I don't think it's 17 wins in 39 games bad either.

We've lost as many games as Leicester / Ipswich and Everton so far this season and if the current points per game stays we will end up around 10th.

How many of those underperforming players would look better in a different system/formation?

I was a fan of our younger player approach this summer, let's give them some minutes.... it's partly what turned it around for mopo

Its also a squad that we took a season to replace the striker, our first choice who is now only 8 games in with a front line thats barely ever healthy or consistent and thats not through tactics, the tactics support their area. I am not saying Ange does not have his issues, he is stubborn and there are issues to resolve but taking a wider picture of his year and abit, there are factors way beyond plain stats for how things have gone. I am not sticking my head in the sand but I now ask myself this often.........how do you solve a problem like Tottenham and honestly there are no easy answers, thats why I give any manager now time to work
 
Its also a squad that we took a season to replace the striker, our first choice who is now only 8 games in with a front line thats barely ever healthy or consistent and thats not through tactics, the tactics support their area. I am not saying Ange does not have his issues, he is stubborn and there are issues to resolve but taking a wider picture of his year and abit, there are factors way beyond plain stats for how things have gone. I am not sticking my head in the sand but I now ask myself this often.........how do you solve a problem like Tottenham and honestly there are no easy answers, thats why I give any manager now time to work
I really think Ange is missing a trick with his lack of rest for his full backs
I believe both destiny and Udogie have played the most minutes and one has had an injury before this season
 
We've conceded 13 goals in the league this season in 11 games. If my maths checks out if that remains consistent we'd end up conceding 45 goals this season (rounding up from 44.9)

Last season we conceded 61.

If we've gone backwards with regards to conceding soft goals compared to last season we've definitely improved quite a lot on conceding non soft goals.

I think we've improved defensively. We've conceded the same number of goals as Chelsea and City. Only one more than Arsenal.

We also have the second best goal difference in the league and have scored the most goals in the league.

I think some fine margins going against us and some poor performances somewhat skews the impression of our performances overall.
I think it's to some degree fine margins but I think those margins are somewhat inherent with our playing style. The basic setup we have is one that equals high scoring games, but not necessarily only in our favour. If you regularly play relatively open high scoring games you're gonna win some and you're gonna lose some and that's borne out by our results. Even the mighty Barcelona right in Pep and Messi's pomp were prone to winning or losing games on specific element moment. It's knife edge football but there are ways to maximise that edge in your favour.

We have a team that will pretty much always score but likewise it will always concede so at the best from a defensive point of view the opposition are always going to feel they have a glimmer of a chance and our own defence will be very aware of that fragility also.
 
I think it's to some degree fine margins but I think those margins are somewhat inherent with our playing style. The basic setup we have is one that equals high scoring games, but not necessarily only in our favour. If you regularly play relatively open high scoring games you're gonna win some and you're gonna lose some and that's borne out by our results. Even the mighty Barcelona right in Pep and Messi's pomp were prone to winning or losing games on specific element moment. It's knife edge football but there are ways to maximise that edge in your favour.

We have a team that will pretty much always score but likewise it will always concede so at the best from a defensive point of view the opposition are always going to feel they have a glimmer of a chance and our own defence will be very aware of that fragility also.
Especially if they have a week to prepare and we have a day
That’s the issue with Europa and the games
But that’s what you have to deal with
No coincidence that we played and beat Villa the same week both sides were in Europe
And we have lost to palace, Brighton and Ipswich I think in weeks where we had mid week games and they didn’t
Their sole focus that week is on our weakness which we can see as fans so it’s not hard for them to focus on
 
I really think Ange is missing a trick with his lack of rest for his full backs
I believe both destiny and Udogie have played the most minutes and one has had an injury before this season

I agree but for me that taps into the fact this squads nowhere near yet.

Son on a decline
I like BJ but he is inconsistent
Spence who I think has a hella a future is consistently set back
We have no real cover for LB
Porro just can't defend, I like the fella but he is
Maddison is a struggle currently
We are desperate for a a top class CM

I think we are about as consistent as the inconsistencies in the squad allow us to be currently IMO, I think we are shockingly short the more I see us
 
I agree but for me that taps into the fact this squads nowhere near yet.

Son on a decline
I like BJ but he is inconsistent
Spence who I think has a hella a future is consistently set back
We have no real cover for LB
Porro just can't defend, I like the fella but he is
Maddison is a struggle currently
We are desperate for a a top class CM

I think we are about as consistent as the inconsistencies in the squad allow us to be currently IMO, I think we are shockingly short the more I see us
Fully agree
It’s why it takes time to build a squad and managers need time
Fans don’t like that though and that also means some players will come and go
Arteta brought in players he binned off 18 months later to progress
Ange needs a cup win to get him the time he needs
Won’t change all fans views but may change enough
I frequently here behind me when were behind this with Scotland or China (yeah I know it was Japan)
But no one says that McKenna hasn’t done anything yet top flight or Iraola (who has Poch vibes all over him for me) hasn’t won a thing, yet most would take them in a heartbeat
 
Not a go at you at all, but this time last year he just needed a couple of windows and a bit more time. In fact, I remember being told by this stage we’d be well on the way.

Can anyone give me the latest estimate as to when we might be able to defend competently and bring some consistency to our game?

Also, the idea was that the system and team would improve with time.

If anything, the opposite has happened - after a fast start, we have looked worse and worse, and the past 365 days of form would have seen us bottom half. And the excuses for Postecoglou are drying up too.

Last year it was injuries followed by having *too few* matches.

This year it's apparently *too many* matches leading to Porro, Udogie et al being burned out.

So, he can't handle too few games, and also apparently cannot handle too many games.

He absolutely isn't the main issue at the club, which is why he deserves time.

But he hasn't earned that patience on his merits or his results, or his track record, which is employing his one single tactic over and over again in the relatively low-stakes footballing wilderness of Australia, Japan, and Scotland.

It's only recognition of extenuating circumstances that is keeping him in the job. I hope for his sake that changes down the road.
 
I frequently here behind me when were behind this with Scotland or China (yeah I know it was Japan)
But no one says that McKenna hasn’t done anything yet top flight or Iraola (who has Poch vibes all over him for me) hasn’t won a thing, yet most would take them in a heartbeat

Before Bournemouth, Iraola coached in Spain. Before outcoaching Postecoglou yesterday, McKenna managed Ipswich in the Championship.

Both are higher levels than Postecoglou has ever coached at before he came here. That's why people say what they say mate.
 
Not looking very good on the coaching front after 11 games this season and follows on from a quite poor end to last season.

We have to be realistic and see that in terms of the direction of travel it is NOT looking good and whatever positive straws we may want to cling to we know deep down we would not cling to those same straws if it was another manager...At this time in AVB and Poch's tenures they were doing better points-wise, let alone in terms of number of losses: we have already almost half of the losses we had in the whole of last season, and fixture-wise our start has been very favourable overall compared to who we would deem as competitors.
The excuses have run dry now.

I must say i'm impressed with him holding his hands up and taking responsibility (at least in public anyway). It is a measure of the man in this day and age that he is doing that. It is this character trait that will give him a stay of execution in my opinion - not to mention the sheer nakedness of the position the board would be in if they did pull the trigger.
 
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I agree but for me that taps into the fact this squads nowhere near yet.

Son on a decline
I like BJ but he is inconsistent
Spence who I think has a hella a future is consistently set back
We have no real cover for LB
Porro just can't defend, I like the fella but he is
Maddison is a struggle currently
We are desperate for a a top class CM

I think we are about as consistent as the inconsistencies in the squad allow us to be currently IMO, I think we are shockingly short the more I see us
This is why when there were those discussions in the summer about the squad I was so adamant that I didn't want Werner coming back (pointless player) and that we needed 2x starting wingers.

I'm happy with the additions we did make, they were largely positive and I buy into them. Ange obviously needs time to mould them into finished article so he has time on his side from that perspective but I do need to see him learn, adapt and progress.
 
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Fully agree
It’s why it takes time to build a squad and managers need time
Fans don’t like that though and that also means some players will come and go
Arteta brought in players he binned off 18 months later to progress
Ange needs a cup win to get him the time he needs
Won’t change all fans views but may change enough
I frequently here behind me when were behind this with Scotland or China (yeah I know it was Japan)
But no one says that McKenna hasn’t done anything yet top flight or Iraola (who has Poch vibes all over him for me) hasn’t won a thing, yet most would take them in a heartbeat

The issue with the hire and fire culture is that it continually undermines the managers, players know they can go on little holidays and the manager will be gone. It also feeds into the narrative that we are all sick and tired of, that this is a continuously failing project, we need to break some kind of cycle
 
Before Bournemouth, Iraola coached in Spain. Before outcoaching Postecoglou yesterday, McKenna managed Ipswich in the Championship.

Both are higher levels than Postecoglou has ever coached at before he came here. That's why people say what they say mate.
Ah the good old 'outcoached' label, just a pretty meaningless tag that amounts to nothing more than the manager won the game. There was no superior tactical nous at play. And it is funny that the level Ange previously coached at always gets brought up after a defeat. How many people were bringing up the level he coached at when he majorly 'outcoached' Emery a week ago.....
 
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