Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Bullet]

Well here it is @Gazza @DeanoAustin @Cundies undies et al.
A very clear response to those saying he should be more pragmatic, like other coaches; he doesn’t want to be like everyone else, and fade away, he wants to try something different.
He didn’t get where he has, by doing what everyone else does.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846520014280466915

 

[Aldo]

Well here it is @Gazza @DeanoAustin @Cundies undies et al.
A very clear response to those saying he should be more pragmatic, like other coaches; he doesn’t want to be like everyone else, and fade away, he wants to try something different.
He didn’t get where he has, by doing what everyone else does.

 

[kb 1984]

Well here it is @Gazza @DeanoAustin @Cundies undies et al.
A very clear response to those saying he should be more pragmatic, like other coaches; he doesn’t want to be like everyone else, and fade away, he wants to try something different.
He didn’t get where he has, by doing what everyone else does.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846520014280466915

The full interview is worth a look

 

[Lemonade Money]

View attachment 17818

Now imagining Mason sitting on a chair that farts.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Well here it is @Gazza @DeanoAustin @Cundies undies et al.
A very clear response to those saying he should be more pragmatic, like other coaches; he doesn’t want to be like everyone else, and fade away, he wants to try something different.
He didn’t get where he has, by doing what everyone else does.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846520014280466915

Nothing I wouldn't have expected him to say. It's a brave approach but, as I've said from the start, I don't believe you can win at this level without defending well and being able to eke out results. If he does prove me wrong, I'll be the first to hold my hands up. What he is doing is brilliant - I love the fact he wants to attack and doesn't believe in brickhousing or dark arts. If he wins here, it's a win for football in my view.

However, not everyone got to where they are by doing the same things. Wenger, Fergie, Clough, Pep, Jose and Klopp are probably the best managers in England that I've seen in my time following the game. But they all did things differently from each other and had different routes into their successes. One of the things they have in common - their successful teams didn't leak goals.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Nothing I wouldn't have expected him to say. It's a brave approach but, as I've said from the start, I don't believe you can win at this level without defending well and being able to eke out results. If he does prove me wrong, I'll be the first to hold my hands up. What he is doing is brilliant - I love the fact he wants to attack and doesn't believe in brickhousing or dark arts. If he wins here, it's a win for football in my view.

However, not everyone got to where they are by doing the same things. Wenger, Fergie, Clough, Pep, Jose and Klopp are probably the best managers in England that I've seen in my time following the game. But they all did things differently from each other and had different routes into their successes. One of the things they have in common - their successful teams didn't leak goals.

The last sentence is key

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Nothing I wouldn't have expected him to say. It's a brave approach but, as I've said from the start, I don't believe you can win at this level without defending well and being able to eke out results. If he does prove me wrong, I'll be the first to hold my hands up. What he is doing is brilliant - I love the fact he wants to attack and doesn't believe in brickhousing or dark arts. If he wins here, it's a win for football in my view.

However, not everyone got to where they are by doing the same things. Wenger, Fergie, Clough, Pep, Jose and Klopp are probably the best managers in England that I've seen in my time following the game. But they all did things differently from each other and had different routes into their successes. One of the things they have in common - their successful teams didn't leak goals.

True
But they also stuck to their philosophy that got them the opportunities

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The last sentence is key

Yep
And I’m glad we have the same defensive record as city and Chelsea because that’s the benchmark, right?
We have a better defensive record than Brighton and Villa who also sit above us

 

[DeanoAustin]

True
But they also stuck to their philosophy that got them the opportunities

Brazil v Italy in 1982 often gets talked about as a match that turned football for the worse. The flamboyant Brazilians, the best players in the world, a joy to watch against the corrupt, defensive, boring Italians. Good versus bad. A sporting Luke Skywalker against Darth Vader. And darkness won, went on to win the tournament and set the game back...

Personally, I think that's abit overplayed and I've certainly fed into it with the above hyperbole. But it's not without some truth.

I think we're at a similar stage with Ange. His views on the game are all that should be good about football. I really do hope his philosophy wins out because I like his philosophy more than any other manager (with maybe the exception of Cloughie).

 

[Grays_1890]

For me, it was the next 4 games that we learned more from, in the 1 point from 15 run including the Chelsea game at the start of it.

I guess you always do when your squad is stretched to it's limit. You learn about who your manager rates, what tactics they will deploy and which young guns they trust.

I still genuinely feel that the guy that lost out the most was Ashley Phillips. I reckon Ange would have thrown him in, but for his injury at Eng U19 level at the same time.

I also think it was lost quickly by some (maybe because they never wanted him) that it was year one, we had an overhaul in the summer and those he wanted were lost in that period and he was left with those we failed to shift (as proven this summer). So in fact Ange was proven right.

I don't think we have been anywhere near as bad as people make out this year, I think in fact we have looked more solid, yes Brighton was concerning but I think that was individuals more than systems.

We will see, but I think we are still only just getting started, I know people who take the modern view of time is of the essence won't agree

 

[Grays_1890]

I think we're at a similar stage with Ange. His views on the game are all that should be good about football. I really do hope his philosophy wins out because I like his philosophy more than any other manager (with maybe the exception of Cloughie).

Alot of it comes down to people taking things to the extreme because he is so open to talking. I am sure he adapts and tweaks like I am sure we worked on set plays and defence, its people listening to stuff without hearing it which is part of the problem IMO

 

[DeanoAustin]

I also think it was lost quickly by some (maybe because they never wanted him) that it was year one, we had an overhaul in the summer and those he wanted were lost in that period and he was left with those we failed to shift (as proven this summer). So in fact Ange was proven right.

I don't think we have been anywhere near as bad as people make out this year, I think in fact we have looked more solid, yes Brighton was concerning but I think that was individuals more than systems.

We will see, but I think we are still only just getting started, I know people who take the modern view of time is of the essence won't agree

We've performed very well in every league game bar Woolwich in my view. And we weren't terrible in that game, they just set up very well to stifle us. The second halves v Brighton and Leicester weren't great but the first halves were exceptionally good IMO.

Could go either way here I guess. We start to make our dominance count and get a run of results that our performances deserve or the players start to lose belief that we can win no matter how well we play and it goes to complete brick.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Alot of it comes down to people taking things to the extreme because he is so open to talking. I am sure he adapts and tweaks like I am sure we worked on set plays and defence, its people listening to stuff without hearing it which is part of the problem IMO

Agreed. For me, a lot of stuff he says gets taken out of context. The bit about set pieces last year - he didn't say he didn't care but that's how it was reported. As it happens, we've defended set pieces very well this year.

The bit against Brighton where he said subs were irrelevant. A stupid thing if you look at it in isolation but in the context of what he was saying (i.e. we'd imploded and stopped competing), it made sense.

I also saw a lot of commentary that his attacking approach cost us v Brighton. For me it didn't. It was individual mistakes by every one of our defenders. That's very different to the second goal v Saudi Sportswashing Machine where we'd pushed high and taken a risk or the great chance Vardy got v Leicester when we'd pushed most of our defenders too high. For me, they were down to the system, Brighton wasn't.

The Dragusin red card was also blamed on his system - for me that was all on the player. He made a mess of something very basic that I'd expect a League 2 player to deal with one way or another. Not condemning Dragusin, he made a bad mistake and panicked but it was on him, not the system.

There is a narrative out there about Ange at the moment and everything that goes wrong gets linked back to it which isn't fair.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Brazil v Italy in 1982 often gets talked about as a match that turned football for the worse. The flamboyant Brazilians, the best players in the world, a joy to watch against the corrupt, defensive, boring Italians. Good versus bad. A sporting Luke Skywalker against Darth Vader. And darkness won, went on to win the tournament and set the game back...

Personally, I think that's abit overplayed and I've certainly fed into it with the above hyperbole. But it's not without some truth.

I think we're at a similar stage with Ange. His views on the game are all that should be good about football. I really do hope his philosophy wins out because I like his philosophy more than any other manager (with maybe the exception of Cloughie).

The Italy team that let a guy out of prison to play?
Not sure how that relates to a philolophy? Italy’s philosophy is won by any means necessary. They view defending as the most key aspect
Other countries and managers don’t

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agreed. For me, a lot of stuff he says gets taken out of context. The bit about set pieces last year - he didn't say he didn't care but that's how it was reported. As it happens, we've defended set pieces very well this year.

The bit against Brighton where he said subs were irrelevant. A stupid thing if you look at it in isolation but in the context of what he was saying (i.e. we'd imploded and stopped competing), it made sense.

I also saw a lot of commentary that his attacking approach cost us v Brighton. For me it didn't. It was individual mistakes by every one of our defenders. That's very different to the second goal v Saudi Sportswashing Machine where we'd pushed high and taken a risk or the great chance Vardy got v Leicester when we'd pushed most of our defenders too high. For me, they were down to the system, Brighton wasn't.

The Dragusin red card was also blamed on his system - for me that was all on the player. He made a mess of something very basic that I'd expect a League 2 player to deal with one way or another. Not condemning Dragusin, he made a bad mistake and panicked but it was on him, not the system.

There is a narrative out there about Ange at the moment and everything that goes wrong gets linked back to it which isn't fair.

I agree
With you have conceded one goal due to the way we play
And the remainder are down to how someone or the team played in a moment
We have addressed set pieces (so far)
The high line will always be there
What do we address next?
Individuals doing the basics is key for any system… a defensive one, and attacking one
No system can counter a player not kicking a ball or walking away from his man. That’s individual mistakes

 

[Muttley]

I also think it was lost quickly by some (maybe because they never wanted him) that it was year one, we had an overhaul in the summer and those he wanted were lost in that period and he was left with those we failed to shift (as proven this summer). So in fact Ange was proven right.

I don't think we have been anywhere near as bad as people make out this year, I think in fact we have looked more solid, yes Brighton was concerning but I think that was individuals more than systems.

We will see, but I think we are still only just getting started, I know people who take the modern view of time is of the essence won't agree

I think Ange was mostly right. Where I questioned him a little was his use of subs when we were losing in that period I spoke about. That trend has continued into this season, where he only uses 5 subs when we win. When we lose, he is making 3 or 4 subs. I have no doubt Fergie or Pep would have got Donley way more involved from the bench compared to Ange. Jamie was in that purple patch for club and country. Everything he touched was either an assist or a goal. Still though, Ange left him several weeks sitting on the bench before getting his first minute....and from memory it was only a minute to waste time.

I do agree on this season though. Regardless of results, the foundations look stronger in both personnel and tactics.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I agree
With you have conceded one goal due to the way we play
And the remainder are down to how someone or the team played in a moment
We have addressed set pieces (so far)
The high line will always be there
What do we address next?
Individuals doing the basics is key for any system… a defensive one, and attacking one
No system can counter a player not kicking a ball or walking away from his man. That’s individual mistakes

Does he drop Romero? He's been playing well generally but making a lot of mistakes that have cost us goals. It'd be a big call to drop arguably our most talented and sought after defender. How, as manager, does he stop the player from making those mistakes?

Udogie has been getting a lot of stick (some of it harsh) but he's been well below his best. Does he persevere with him?

Porro, for me, still has work to do on the basics of defending even though he has improved since Ange arrived. When he shows the attacker the line, he's getting too close repeatedly to the attacker and it leaves him open to being skinned.

All of the above are the responsibility of the manager IMO. There are things he can do.

 

[harr1984]

Yep
And I’m glad we have the same defensive record as city and Chelsea because that’s the benchmark, right?
We have a better defensive record than Brighton and Villa who also sit above us

Our defence weakness/openness gets overstated big time. Everytime I look at the match stats our expected Goals conceded its pretty low, and we've conceded two goals more than the measly Gooner defence and like you say the same as City and Chelsea.

Apparently the way we play meant we was going to concede goals galore against the big teams who would pick us apart, yet other than Saudi Sportswashing Machine away last season horror show I don't recall any real spankings.....

 

[DeanoAustin]

Our defence weakness/openness gets overstated big time. Everytime I look at the match stats our expected Goals conceded its pretty low, and we've conceded two goals more than the measly Gooner defence and like you say the same as City and Chelsea.

Apparently the way we play meant we was going to concede goals galore against the big teams who would pick us apart, yet other than Saudi Sportswashing Machine away last season horror show I don't recall any real spankings.....

To be fair, Liverpool away and Brighton away last year were horror shows. Fulham too.

 

[harr1984]

To be fair, Liverpool away and Brighton away last year were horror shows. Fulham too.

Right, so a handful of games out of how many when implementing a completely new philosophy? We ended up conceding same amount of goals as Villa that season, it's overexaggerated IMO....