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VDV

Even IF AVB wanted VDV out, IMO that's his decision to make and for everyone else to accept, but it's really a number of factors combining to create the final result. I didn't mind at the time and looking back it looks even more like the correct decision for all parties involved.
 
agree with what Arc said above - from that interview it looks as though VdV was told that he'd have to prove himself or at least have competition for his place in the team - doesn't look like Villa Boas told him he was not wanted at all, in fact it sounds as though towards the end of the summer (when perhaps it was clearer that Sigurdsson was not quite ready to be that much of a threat to his place in the team) he was told that he was needed - but he'd already made up his mind to leave by this point.

funny how people read things differently
 
diego_maradona said:
He saw himself as 'the guy'? Sorry Rafa... This club is far bigger than you
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Seeing yourself as "the guy" doesn't mean you think you're bigger than the club.

Rafa for most of his stay was the guy, he was a big name and one of our star players when we signed him, we very rarely sign an established star and he went on to put in some excellent performances that made him our main match winner for most of his stay.

He was our top scorer one season, he was the man. I don't see anything wrong there. Until the City away game, King was our talisman and his presence meant that we as fans even believed we couldn't lose with him in the team. He was the man as far as the defence goes.

Every club has players that are "the man", and the identity of "the man" can change rapidly. Rooney last season and RVP this season is an example of that... Thinking of yourself as "the guy" doesn't mean you think you're bigger than the club.

He thought of himself as an automatic starter as plenty of other people do, there's nothing wrong with that. It's disappointing to find out all the other stuff that factored into his move, but he parted on good terms and both parties moved on.

------

Ultimately he had the choice of not being seen as an important first team player that'd be an automatic starter for us or a chance to move to a team that he felt would help his personal life and that club gave him the opportunity to be a white knight riding in and saving them. The way everything worked out means that he has had a horrible time since the move, but at the time, he felt that HSV needed him more than we did.

To be fair, when he came to us, it wasn't for money, he must have had the same sort of feeling. He could come in and be a hero for us and he was. This being one of the reasons for him switching clubs isn't a case of using us as a stepping stone, it isn't a case of him just being a mercenary, it isn't a case of him abandoning us for a rival.

-----

We all knew that a Mourinho, AVB, type of manager wasn't VDV's preferred choice of style. It isn't entirely surprising that AVB and he didn't get off to the best start.

I think what makes Dawson so awesome and what makes him deserve all the credit he gets for staying and fighting for his place even though the club accepted a bid for him is that it's a very rare thing. Most footballers wouldn't do that, most people wouldn't do that. That's more the actions of a fan than anything else. Sure, the determination and will involved is commendable anyway, but the choice of fighting an unnecessary fight instead of walking into another team, being a hero, a savoir and being someone that's really important to them is a strange choice to make. On paper, there's no reason to make it if you're just a professional that has no reason to prefer one club to another.

He risked being 5th choice CB and not getting more than 3 games in this season and the amount of respect Dawson deserves for his choice is incredible. But it's an extraordinary thing, hardly anyone would do the same thing in his position.

The scary thing is, QPR probably wouldn't be at the bottom of the table if he had moved.

------

I don't think AVB was out of order on the VDV thing, I don't think VDV was out of order on it either.
 
But someone needs to be blamed come on for the sake of modern society we need to blame some one. It just has to be someone's fudge up.
 
braineclipse said:
I don't know if I buy what he said as the whole story.

It now seems very likely that he was having marital problems, it was rumoured at the time that he wanted to move back to Germany to be close to his family. It seems very likely that this was at least part of the reason why he left.[/QUOTE]

It was.
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THFC6061 said:
I suppose this poses an interesting question - would Gareth Bale progress as rapidly as he's done this season if Rafael van der Vaart was still at Spurs?

Perhaps we'll never be 100% certain, but I feel that Bale has stepped-up in a way that would not have been possible if VDV had been playing.
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I also don't think Bale would have progressed as much with VdV in the side. On his day Rafa was sublime and inventive and as a senior player would demand to be more of a fulcrum of our attacking play. He also liked to roam, which is sort of what Bale is doing now, and you can't have two of those types on the pitch.
 
Fuego said:
Seeing yourself as "the guy" doesn't mean you think you're bigger than the club.

Rafa for most of his stay was the guy, he was a big name and one of our star players when we signed him, we very rarely sign an established star and he went on to put in some excellent performances that made him our main match winner for most of his stay.

He was our top scorer one season, he was the man. I don't see anything wrong there. Until the City away game, King was our talisman and his presence meant that we as fans even believed we couldn't lose with him in the team. He was the man as far as the defence goes.

Every club has players that are "the man", and the identity of "the man" can change rapidly. Rooney last season and RVP this season is an example of that... Thinking of yourself as "the guy" doesn't mean you think you're bigger than the club.

He thought of himself as an automatic starter as plenty of other people do, there's nothing wrong with that. It's disappointing to find out all the other stuff that factored into his move, but he parted on good terms and both parties moved on.

------

Ultimately he had the choice of not being seen as an important first team player that'd be an automatic starter for us or a chance to move to a team that he felt would help his personal life and that club gave him the opportunity to be a white knight riding in and saving them. The way everything worked out means that he has had a horrible time since the move, but at the time, he felt that HSV needed him more than we did.

To be fair, when he came to us, it wasn't for money, he must have had the same sort of feeling. He could come in and be a hero for us and he was. This being one of the reasons for him switching clubs isn't a case of using us as a stepping stone, it isn't a case of him just being a mercenary, it isn't a case of him abandoning us for a rival.

-----

We all knew that a Mourinho, AVB, type of manager wasn't VDV's preferred choice of style. It isn't entirely surprising that AVB and he didn't get off to the best start.

I think what makes Dawson so awesome and what makes him deserve all the credit he gets for staying and fighting for his place even though the club accepted a bid for him is that it's a very rare thing. Most footballers wouldn't do that, most people wouldn't do that. That's more the actions of a fan than anything else. Sure, the determination and will involved is commendable anyway, but the choice of fighting an unnecessary fight instead of walking into another team, being a hero, a savoir and being someone that's really important to them is a strange choice to make. On paper, there's no reason to make it if you're just a professional that has no reason to prefer one club to another.

He risked being 5th choice CB and not getting more than 3 games in this season and the amount of respect Dawson deserves for his choice is incredible. But it's an extraordinary thing, hardly anyone would do the same thing in his position.

The scary thing is, QPR probably wouldn't be at the bottom of the table if he had moved.

------

I don't think AVB was out of order on the VDV thing, I don't think VDV was out of order on it either.
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Ahhh dam I got Fuego'd
 
Does anyone else constantly ask themselves the question why did we sell this guy? I know he hasn't exactly set the world alight since he went back to Hamburg but he was one of the few strong characters we had at the club and for some reason we decided we could do better. And I don't for a second believe that he left to save his marriage, name one professional athlete who doesn't call the shots when it comes to their marriage and life in general. The club just has a mentally weak core that's ingrained throughout the club.

Is that too harsh or simplistic?
 
That transfer has never made sense to me, players with his ability just don't come around very often. I think avb had a system in his head that vdv did not suit. Another massive mistake the club and Levy have made.
 
Forgot to mention he was also the only player alongside maybe Dawson and Bale who you could sense genuinely didn't like Arsenal and enjoyed rubbing it in their faces when we got one over on them.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Does anyone else constantly ask themselves the question why did we sell this guy? I know he hasn't exactly set the world alight since he went back to Hamburg but he was one of the few strong characters we had at the club and for some reason we decided we could do better. And I don't for a second believe that he left to save his marriage, name one professional athlete who doesn't call the shots when it comes to their marriage and life in general. The club just has a mentally weak core that's ingrained throughout the club.

Is that too harsh or simplistic?
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I know I acted like a complete dingdong earliar but this is what I was trying to say, the mentality of the club, from the fans to the players is sooooo weak it is unbelievable.

Not harsh or simplistic mate, tickle my balls with a feather.

Miss VdV so much :(
 
Do we really need to go over this particular subject yet again? It must have been done at least a dozen times by now and I highly doubt we'll arrive at a different conclusion this time.
 
He was a winner, however his legs had gone.. Watching him live became a sad thing for me as he was just always off the pace just before we sold him. Has also been terrible by all accounts for Hamburg..
 
Jordinho said:
Do we really need to go over this particular subject yet again? It must have been done at least a dozen times by now and I highly doubt we'll arrive at a different conclusion this time.
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Why not? Everything gets done to death on this football that's how it goes. Whoever decided to sell him whether it was AVB, Levy or both dropped a massive gonad.
 
I was gutted when he left, but I understood that his lack of stamina and his strong, domineering personality made him unfit for AVB's high-pressing, all-for-one-and-one-for-all system.

He would have been perfect for us now (after the collapse of the AVB experiment) as we try to get some semblance of a spine into our squad: his leadership, passion and evident affection for the club would have worked wonders on our mentally fragile lot in terms of setting them an example they could follow. But alas, I feel it's too late now. We took a gamble by giving AVB what he wanted in terms of the personality of our squad: it then became clear that, for whatever reason, he couldn't hold up his end of the bargain in terms of providing off-pitch leadership. And now, we are suffering for that miscalculation.
 
Jordinho said:
Do we really need to go over this particular subject yet again? It must have been done at least a dozen times by now and I highly doubt we'll arrive at a different conclusion this time.
Click to expand...

wowsers. This gets called up on for being repetitive over some of the other stuff today?
 
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