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Tottenham vs Manchester United OMT

Bedfordspurs said:
I don’t agree with those personally
But I’ll add Rose and Foyth as two others who need to leave

but I look at my list again think that if we can get in two decent , capable centre backs, ideally a quality right back too we will instantly be better. Bring in a coach who isnt going to scare the players every time and it will be significantly better

It would be
Dier out, new CB in
Sissoko out, skipp in
Lamela out, sessgnon or Clarke in (ideally I’d like another player but I’m trying to be pragmatic)
Aurier out, new RB or even Tanganga, or maybe the lad we got in from Chelsea
Sanchez out, new CB
Toby out, Tanganga in at CB
Davies out, Sessegnon or give Cirkin a chance

even playing defensive scoring goals hasn’t been a problem in comparison to the woeful defending. Sort some of that out and we will be better.
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My thoughts on who absolutely NEEDS to go irrespective of anything are.......

I'm not sure that any player's career at Spurs is so impossible to turn around that they absolutely HAVE to be jettisoned and that is coming from somebody who has criticised Dier's performances for 3 years. A new coach with new ideas could reinvigorate any of our players.

If I look at our team I think we are very weak at the centre of defence, one short quality wise in the centre of midfield and lack depth/quality at right back. That should therefore dictate those who must go just to make space for new signings. With that in mind my order those that should be allowed to go are (note that I am assuming Bale and Vinicius naturally return to their parent clubs, Foyth's loan is made permanent and Rose's contract is allowed to expire):

1. Dier (no real outstanding qualities to play either DM or CB, takes up an overseas spot, shouldn't be too hard to upgrade for not ridiculous money).
2. Sanchez (overseas player, average (at best) on the ball, not physically strong enough, does have some recovery pace but has to try to use it far too often, again not hard to upgrade).
3. Sissoko (another overseas player now coming to the end of his career, his game was always about physicality and that is/will now start to wane)
4. Winks (a tidy player that might actually fit in better in a better footballing team than our current one, I think we could make better use of the funds he'd bring in).
5. Doherty (worse than Aurier in every aspect of right back play, I also don't like full backs who have little pace).
6. Davies (not a bad squad player but he's not a centre back and not dynamic enough to play as an attacking left back in a 4. Regulion and Sessegnon should cover the LB spot.
7. Lamela (an OK squad player but too injury prone to be relied on, also kills too many attacks with dithering on the ball)

We might be able to bring in £80 to as much as £100 million for that lot (including Foyth). Which (for a good DoF) should provide funds to go out and get:

2 x first team centre backs (~£25m each)
1 x young but talented right back (~£10m)
1 x central midfield enforcer type (~£20m)
1 x youngish, nearly ready, number 2 keeper (~£10m) (I thought Dinamo Pig Farmer's keeper looked very good against us and I think he is just breaking into the Croatian national team)
1 x backup striker (might have to be a loan or a freebie)
1 x two footed playmaker would be the icing on the cake but we may not have the funds for him..... There are a few interesting bosmans and players with 1 year left here however.

If we were looking for funds to improve the quality of the required players above or add tht playmaker then the person not in my above list that I would sell would be Lo Celso, I say this because I'm not completely sure where he fits into a top 4 PL team?.... He looks too one footed to be a top class playmaker and isn't fast or physical enough to play further back. Not an essential sale but I wonder whether the funds could be put to better use?

Of course if Son or Kane are sold then we'd have to add a proper first centre forward/wide forward to the above list but it would also be a whole different ball game in terms of the signings we could then potentially afford.....
 
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Finney Is Back said:
My thoughts on who absolutely NEEDS to go irrespective of anything are.......

I'm not sure that any player's career at Spurs is so impossible to turn around that they absolutely HAVE to be jettisoned and that is coming from somebody who has criticised Dier's performances for 3 years. A new coach with new ideas could reinvigorate any of our players.

If I look at our team I think we are very weak at the centre of defence, one short in the centre of midfield and lack depth/quality at right back. That should therefore dictate those who must go just to make space for new signings. With that in mind my order those that should be allowed to go are (note that I am assuming Bale and Vinicius naturally return to their parent clubs, Foyth's loan is made permanent and Rose's contract is allowed to expire):

1. Dier (no real outstanding qualities to play either DM or CB, takes up an overseas spot, shouldn't be too hard to upgrade for not ridiculous money).
2. Sanchez (overseas player, average (at best) on the ball, not physically strong enough, does have some recovery pace but has to try to use it far too often, again not hard to upgrade).
3. Sissoko (another overseas player now coming to the end of his career, his game was always about physicality and that is/will now start to wane)
4. Winks (a tidy player that might actually fit in better in a better footballing team than our current one, I think we could make better use of the funds he'd bring in).
5. Doherty (worse than Aurier in every aspect of right back play, I also don't like full backs who have little pace).
6. Davies (not a bad squad player but he's not a centre back and not dynamic enough to play as an attacking left back in a 4. Regulion and Sessegnon should cover the LB spot.

After that it is window dressing....

We might be able to bring in £70 to £80 million for that lot (including Foyth). Which (for a good DoF) should provide funds to go out and get:

2 x first team centre backs (~£25m each)
1 x young but talented right back (~£10m)
1 x central midfield enforcer type (~£20m)
1 x youngish, nearly ready, number 2 keeper (~£10m) (I thought Dinamo Pig Farmer's keeper looked very good against us and I think he is just breaking into the Croatian national team)
1 x backup striker (might have to be a loan or a freebie)

Of course if Son or Kane are sold then we'd have to add a proper first centre forward/wide forward to the above list but it would also be a whole different ball game in terms of the signings we could then potentially afford.....
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Can’t argue with any of that
 
Finney Is Back said:
My thoughts on who absolutely NEEDS to go irrespective of anything are.......

I'm not sure that any player's career at Spurs is so impossible to turn around that they absolutely HAVE to be jettisoned and that is coming from somebody who has criticised Dier's performances for 3 years. A new coach with new ideas could reinvigorate any of our players.

If I look at our team I think we are very weak at the centre of defence, one short quality wise in the centre of midfield and lack depth/quality at right back. That should therefore dictate those who must go just to make space for new signings. With that in mind my order those that should be allowed to go are (note that I am assuming Bale and Vinicius naturally return to their parent clubs, Foyth's loan is made permanent and Rose's contract is allowed to expire):

1. Dier (no real outstanding qualities to play either DM or CB, takes up an overseas spot, shouldn't be too hard to upgrade for not ridiculous money).
2. Sanchez (overseas player, average (at best) on the ball, not physically strong enough, does have some recovery pace but has to try to use it far too often, again not hard to upgrade).
3. Sissoko (another overseas player now coming to the end of his career, his game was always about physicality and that is/will now start to wane)
4. Winks (a tidy player that might actually fit in better in a better footballing team than our current one, I think we could make better use of the funds he'd bring in).
5. Doherty (worse than Aurier in every aspect of right back play, I also don't like full backs who have little pace).
6. Davies (not a bad squad player but he's not a centre back and not dynamic enough to play as an attacking left back in a 4. Regulion and Sessegnon should cover the LB spot.
7. Lamela (an OK squad player but too injury prone to be relied on, also kills too many attacks with dithering on the ball)

We might be able to bring in £80 to as much as £100 million for that lot (including Foyth). Which (for a good DoF) should provide funds to go out and get:

2 x first team centre backs (~£25m each)
1 x young but talented right back (~£10m)
1 x central midfield enforcer type (~£20m)
1 x youngish, nearly ready, number 2 keeper (~£10m) (I thought Dinamo Pig Farmer's keeper looked very good against us and I think he is just breaking into the Croatian national team)
1 x backup striker (might have to be a loan or a freebie)
1 x two footed playmaker would be the icing on the cake but we may not have the funds for him..... There are a few interesting bosmans and players with 1 year left here however.

If we were looking for funds to improve the quality of the required players above or add tht playmaker then the person not in my above list that I would sell would be Lo Celso, I say this because I'm not completely sure where he fits into a top 4 PL team?.... He looks too one footed to be a top class playmaker and isn't fast or physical enough to play further back. Not an essential sale but I wonder whether the funds could be put to better use?

Of course if Son or Kane are sold then we'd have to add a proper first centre forward/wide forward to the above list but it would also be a whole different ball game in terms of the signings we could then potentially afford.....
Click to expand...

Agree with much of that. My four priorities though would be the spine of the team to give us much needed gumption.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Dier (I like him but he carries so much baggage when he plays he needs to go)
Sissoko (can’t pass and seems to have lost his legs for running now)
Lamela (an attacker who people like for his dirty side....)
Aurier (was great first half of season but now looks average and has a year left on his contract)
Sanchez (not comfortable with the ball and not commanding without it)
Toby (can’t run, can’t head, ok on the floor.... he is basically John Travolta)
Davies (won’t pass in attack, ant pass in defence)

possibles
Hugo and winks for different reasons
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Brilliant, love that bit about Toby being John Travolta.

Sissoko, let's face it Sissoko sums up where we are and why we are in the mess we are in.
A player no one else in the top ten would have on their squad, yet regularly gets in out team.
A player that Jose thought would be an easy target to move on to show his authority but had to rethink because Sissoko was popular in the dressing room.
A player that let's be perfectly honest here if was being brought on to help change a game in your favour you'd wonder at 1, what the manager was doing, 2, is this really the best a club with top asperations can manage, 3, if this is the level of support the expect me to win trophies with why should I bother too much.
GHod knows what the poor bloke being replaced by Sissoko must feel like.
And the thing is, none of this is Sissoko fault, he should never have been brought here, but should definitely not have been kept here as long has he has.
He gives his all and at another time would probably have been a bit of a cult hero, but we've moved beyond that. Or at least we had.
Sissoko is the only bad and irredeemable bad player we have, the fact that we still give him game time just bewilders me.
Turned into a bit of a rant about one player there, oops.
Short version,
We don't have bad players, but we do have a bad team.
 
Aurier, Toby, Sissoko, Sanchez, Doherty, Lamela have all been given enough chances under two managers ( except Doherty) and shown that they have not got it , can not do it anymore, or can not be bothered to do it on a regular basis.

For me they should be the first out of the door, then we have Davies ( decent back up), Dier who is not a CB and if he does stay should be moved back into CM ( as a back up). Still think we need to get another class keeper. Bale should go back to Madrid as well.

Not sure if we will make all those changes unless Kane does decides to leave and we get a good price for him and Dele.
 
Finney Is Back said:
My thoughts on who absolutely NEEDS to go irrespective of anything are.......

I'm not sure that any player's career at Spurs is so impossible to turn around that they absolutely HAVE to be jettisoned and that is coming from somebody who has criticised Dier's performances for 3 years. A new coach with new ideas could reinvigorate any of our players.

If I look at our team I think we are very weak at the centre of defence, one short quality wise in the centre of midfield and lack depth/quality at right back. That should therefore dictate those who must go just to make space for new signings. With that in mind my order those that should be allowed to go are (note that I am assuming Bale and Vinicius naturally return to their parent clubs, Foyth's loan is made permanent and Rose's contract is allowed to expire):

1. Dier (no real outstanding qualities to play either DM or CB, takes up an overseas spot, shouldn't be too hard to upgrade for not ridiculous money).
2. Sanchez (overseas player, average (at best) on the ball, not physically strong enough, does have some recovery pace but has to try to use it far too often, again not hard to upgrade).
3. Sissoko (another overseas player now coming to the end of his career, his game was always about physicality and that is/will now start to wane)
4. Winks (a tidy player that might actually fit in better in a better footballing team than our current one, I think we could make better use of the funds he'd bring in).
5. Doherty (worse than Aurier in every aspect of right back play, I also don't like full backs who have little pace).
6. Davies (not a bad squad player but he's not a centre back and not dynamic enough to play as an attacking left back in a 4. Regulion and Sessegnon should cover the LB spot.
7. Lamela (an OK squad player but too injury prone to be relied on, also kills too many attacks with dithering on the ball)

We might be able to bring in £80 to as much as £100 million for that lot (including Foyth). Which (for a good DoF) should provide funds to go out and get:

2 x first team centre backs (~£25m each)
1 x young but talented right back (~£10m)
1 x central midfield enforcer type (~£20m)
1 x youngish, nearly ready, number 2 keeper (~£10m) (I thought Dinamo Pig Farmer's keeper looked very good against us and I think he is just breaking into the Croatian national team)
1 x backup striker (might have to be a loan or a freebie)
1 x two footed playmaker would be the icing on the cake but we may not have the funds for him..... There are a few interesting bosmans and players with 1 year left here however.

If we were looking for funds to improve the quality of the required players above or add tht playmaker then the person not in my above list that I would sell would be Lo Celso, I say this because I'm not completely sure where he fits into a top 4 PL team?.... He looks too one footed to be a top class playmaker and isn't fast or physical enough to play further back. Not an essential sale but I wonder whether the funds could be put to better use?

Of course if Son or Kane are sold then we'd have to add a proper first centre forward/wide forward to the above list but it would also be a whole different ball game in terms of the signings we could then potentially afford.....
Click to expand...
I agree with the outs in general but I think no.7 could be any one of the players who have played on the right for us - excluding Bale who I’m sure won’t be returning the others all work hard but rarely threaten the goal. This makes us even make reliant on Son and Kane and one dimensional in attack. If we can get a genuine threat from that side I’m sure it will make a huge difference. We might have to keep 1 of the three for continuity and cover and there are situations where their work rate is useful and they do ok at Europa and early cup round level but I think if we can free up the wages and any potential transfer fee from two of them we could add a new dimension to our play. We had a couple of games where a walking Bale showed what a difference a player defences are worried can make.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
A few things I'll take away from that game...

Oddly enough, I don't think the players' attitude was at fault, for once. They fought for every ball and really looked like they wanted to win this one. Unfortunately, that shows that this squad is definitely not good enough for Top 4. We just have too many weak areas at the moment. It's easy to say that they'd perform differently under another manager but a) the same could be said for Fulham or West Brom and b) there's a complete lack of balance within the squad.

Looking back, it's also interesting to see the difference in Mourinho's attitude compared to September or October. He looked a lot more... involved, for lack of a better word, back then. We looked like we had gameplans for every situation: when we went down at Old Trafford or against Chelsea in the League Cup, we still had it in us to turn things around. On Sunday, on the other hand... then again, maybe it's in the eye of the beholder. Maybe I've grown tired of half-assed performances and unfortunate turns of event. In any case, I never felt we could find a way back, despite the fact that the players kept on trying. Ironically, I think we were 3rd or something over the last six games before the week-end.

It's also worth noting that United played roughly the same number of games as we did, so fatigue can't be an excuse there, particularly when they walked all over us in the second half.

On a more controversial note, if someone was crazy enough to meet the 200m asking price, I think we should cash in on Kane. He's an outstanding player but that's the problem: he's outstanding. We don't have a single player on his level or even close to that - Son is the only exception but he's a form player. The lack of balance works both ways and at the moment, I think we'd be better off with 4 or 5 new players who'd be good enough to fight for a Top 4 spot. Kane is good enough to win the Champions League but here, he doesn't have the players around him to make the most of his talent, and I don't believe a new manager would turn Lucas, Aurier or Lo Celso into world-beaters.
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You of all people here would appreciate this week's pod.
 
SteveAWOL said:
https://www.coachesvoice.com/tottenham-1-manchester-united-3-tactical-analysis/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1381627454893211655
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I definitely noticed that Lo Celso was closer to Ndombele in the first half. It did feel like he was taking up more of a CM berth as opposed to being stuck out on the right hand side. I didn't think we were horrible in the match even up to their equaliser but I do think Mourinho three in the towel with his ridiculous subs. To take off the 2 passing CMs we have and to replace with Sissoko and Lamela when you are going for a winner was criminal.
 
Finney Is Back said:
My thoughts on who absolutely NEEDS to go irrespective of anything are.......

I'm not sure that any player's career at Spurs is so impossible to turn around that they absolutely HAVE to be jettisoned and that is coming from somebody who has criticised Dier's performances for 3 years. A new coach with new ideas could reinvigorate any of our players.

If I look at our team I think we are very weak at the centre of defence, one short quality wise in the centre of midfield and lack depth/quality at right back. That should therefore dictate those who must go just to make space for new signings. With that in mind my order those that should be allowed to go are (note that I am assuming Bale and Vinicius naturally return to their parent clubs, Foyth's loan is made permanent and Rose's contract is allowed to expire):

1. Dier (no real outstanding qualities to play either DM or CB, takes up an overseas spot, shouldn't be too hard to upgrade for not ridiculous money).
2. Sanchez (overseas player, average (at best) on the ball, not physically strong enough, does have some recovery pace but has to try to use it far too often, again not hard to upgrade).
3. Sissoko (another overseas player now coming to the end of his career, his game was always about physicality and that is/will now start to wane)
4. Winks (a tidy player that might actually fit in better in a better footballing team than our current one, I think we could make better use of the funds he'd bring in).
5. Doherty (worse than Aurier in every aspect of right back play, I also don't like full backs who have little pace).
6. Davies (not a bad squad player but he's not a centre back and not dynamic enough to play as an attacking left back in a 4. Regulion and Sessegnon should cover the LB spot.
7. Lamela (an OK squad player but too injury prone to be relied on, also kills too many attacks with dithering on the ball)

We might be able to bring in £80 to as much as £100 million for that lot (including Foyth). Which (for a good DoF) should provide funds to go out and get:

2 x first team centre backs (~£25m each)
1 x young but talented right back (~£10m)
1 x central midfield enforcer type (~£20m)
1 x youngish, nearly ready, number 2 keeper (~£10m) (I thought Dinamo Pig Farmer's keeper looked very good against us and I think he is just breaking into the Croatian national team)
1 x backup striker (might have to be a loan or a freebie)
1 x two footed playmaker would be the icing on the cake but we may not have the funds for him..... There are a few interesting bosmans and players with 1 year left here however.

If we were looking for funds to improve the quality of the required players above or add tht playmaker then the person not in my above list that I would sell would be Lo Celso, I say this because I'm not completely sure where he fits into a top 4 PL team?.... He looks too one footed to be a top class playmaker and isn't fast or physical enough to play further back. Not an essential sale but I wonder whether the funds could be put to better use?

Of course if Son or Kane are sold then we'd have to add a proper first centre forward/wide forward to the above list but it would also be a whole different ball game in terms of the signings we could then potentially afford.....
Click to expand...

Not sure we'd raise 100m in a fire sale. Have to a. get a club to pay up millions for these players we don't want and b. the player has to accept their new wage offer and package. As we've seen with Rose this is not simple, as he'd probably been asked to half his wages to move on.

Agree with the the list of sales, apart from right back. I actually think Aurier and Doherty are a decent pair. Doherty like Aurier a season or two ago, just needs to play regular games and a manager to bring him on. I have personally seen enough to see he can be a decent player once settled and playing in a clear system.

The problem has been the number of decent, but not good enough players we have. Every team needs squad players. We seem to have amassed a team of them, without enough 'first on the teamsheet' defenders. We have no players in defensive who you could say will be first choice players next season! It illustrates how weak and unsettled we've become at the back.
 
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Matt Doherty, a decent player? I have watched him for club and country. It must be a parallel universe's Matt Doherty that one is referring to.
 
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