Tottenham vs Manchester United OMT

[Bedfordspurs]

Not clear on the point you're making here mate? Are you agreeing with Redknapp or not?

I’m crediting him for saying what others are scared to say and I’m calling out there double standards
There are people in the media saying our squad is more than good enough to be CL and better ... people on here say it too
But the same media are also saying that Kane should leave to go to a clubs like Chelsea or united as their better (yet also say we’re as good as them squad wise)
So what’s the issue?
Is the squad good enough (I don’t think so personally any I’m still amazed people in the media count the players starting who also played a CL final 2 years ago without recognising some of those have got notably worse as players as they have got older)
The reality is IMO we have a manager draining the players (at least redknapp had the balls to say it), but we also have players who just aren’t as good as they were, or simply haven’t progressed at all and need to leave.
We need 2/3 key signings and a new manager
And when I say media I mean sky and the athletic of late.

 

[Pirate55]

No-one is arguing certain areas need an upgrade. But some people think we need a "complete rebuild" and yes mate, it has been said.
.

Wasn't it Poch himself who said we needed a painful rebuild?

 

[Finney Is Back]

How much did we spend gross under Poch? Last window under him was a total shocker. Two wingers sent immediately out on loan, a player who even Poch said wouldn't be ready for two years and another onefoooted Argentinian. How much have we continued to spunk on Bale, Bergwyn, Doherty, Vinni, and Reggie when we had much much more pressing needs. It's not the quantum spent it's the actual players bought that was and is the problem

Think it was clear Poch had no interest in Clarke.
Poch didn’t send Sess out on loan (Jose did).
Ndombele looked promising under Poch right away then got injured.
Lo Celso arrived injured

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I would love to see the list of players you think are beyond salvation.

Dier (I like him but he carries so much baggage when he plays he needs to go)
Sissoko (can’t pass and seems to have lost his legs for running now)
Lamela (an attacker who people like for his dirty side....)
Aurier (was great first half of season but now looks average and has a year left on his contract)
Sanchez (not comfortable with the ball and not commanding without it)
Toby (can’t run, can’t head, ok on the floor.... he is basically John Travolta)
Davies (won’t pass in attack, ant pass in defence)

possibles
Hugo and winks for different reasons

 

[Pirate55]

Dier (I like him but he carries so much baggage when he plays he needs to go)
Sissoko (can’t pass and seems to have lost his legs for running now)
Lamela (an attacker who people like for his dirty side....)
Aurier (was great first half of season but now looks average and has a year left on his contract)
Sanchez (not comfortable with the ball and not commanding without it)
Toby (can’t run, can’t head, ok on the floor.... he is basically John Travolta)
Davies (won’t pass in attack, ant pass in defence)

possibles
Hugo and winks for different reasons

Add to that list:

Doherty ( total wreck of a season)
Bergwyn ( has no one single outstanding attribute)
Vinni ( not what we need)
Bale ( worth a gamble but it hasn't come off)
Lucas ( too inconsistent)
NDombele (unsuited to PL)
Dele ( unless the team is set up in a specific way)
LoCelso ( jury still out )

 

[Mikey10]

Wasn't it Poch himself who said we needed a painful rebuild?

This is what it feels like - we’ve started it.

 

[Mikey10]

Am I missing something, or have we dropped MOTM polls?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Add to that list:

Doherty ( total wreck of a season)
Bergwyn ( has no one single outstanding attribute)
Vinni ( not what we need)
Bale ( worth a gamble but it hasn't come off)
Lucas ( too inconsistent)
NDombele (unsuited to PL)
Dele ( unless the team is set up in a specific way)
LoCelso ( jury still out )

I don’t agree with those personally
But I’ll add Rose and Foyth as two others who need to leave

but I look at my list again think that if we can get in two decent , capable centre backs, ideally a quality right back too we will instantly be better. Bring in a coach who isnt going to scare the players every time and it will be significantly better

It would be
Dier out, new CB in
Sissoko out, skipp in
Lamela out, sessgnon or Clarke in (ideally I’d like another player but I’m trying to be pragmatic)
Aurier out, new RB or even Tanganga, or maybe the lad we got in from Chelsea
Sanchez out, new CB
Toby out, Tanganga in at CB
Davies out, Sessegnon or give Cirkin a chance

even playing defensive scoring goals hasn’t been a problem in comparison to the woeful defending. Sort some of that out and we will be better.

 

[thfcsteff]

Wasn't it Poch himself who said we needed a painful rebuild?

Yes.
But that wasn't about turfing out a whole side.
The "painful" bit was letting Eriksen go when Barca might've bought, letting Toby go, letting go of the "punts" taken when primary targets weren't given (Janssen) as opposed to holding on for very top dollar, and trusting the manager. Think Coutinho-Klopp-LFC. He was given short-thrift.
This has all been beaten to death a hundred times over.

 

[thfcsteff]

Dier (I like him but he carries so much baggage when he plays he needs to go)
Sissoko (can’t pass and seems to have lost his legs for running now)
Lamela (an attacker who people like for his dirty side....)
Aurier (was great first half of season but now looks average and has a year left on his contract)
Sanchez (not comfortable with the ball and not commanding without it)
Toby (can’t run, can’t head, ok on the floor.... he is basically John Travolta)
Davies (won’t pass in attack, ant pass in defence)

possibles
Hugo and winks for different reasons

I forgot Sissoko, and sadly, I agree, yes, it is time. I'd be fine with letting go of most, but personally feel a new manager could get a bounce out of Sanchez, Aurier and possibly Winks, albeit unsure.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don’t agree with those personally
But I’ll add Rose and Foyth as two others who need to leave

but I look at my list again think that if we can get in two decent , capable centre backs, ideally a quality right back too we will instantly be better. Bring in a coach who isnt going to scare the players every time and it will be significantly better

It would be
Dier out, new CB in
Sissoko out, skipp in
Lamela out, sessgnon or Clarke in (ideally I’d like another player but I’m trying to be pragmatic)
Aurier out, new RB or even Tanganga, or maybe the lad we got in from Chelsea
Sanchez out, new CB
Toby out, Tanganga in at CB
Davies out, Sessegnon or give Cirkin a chance

even playing defensive scoring goals hasn’t been a problem in comparison to the woeful defending. Sort some of that out and we will be better.

Yes, Rose for sure. Foyth has been mismanaged for sure, by both Poch and Mourinho. He has quality on the ball IMO but it's easy money.

Still leaves us with a lot of players.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I forgot Sissoko, and sadly, I agree, yes, it is time. I'd be fine with letting go of most, but personally feel a new manager could get a bounce out of Sanchez, Aurier and possibly Winks, albeit unsure.

Aurier wants out now IMO. He was really really good until jan. no new contract has probably influenced his game
Sanchez just needs a new start and we can get better for much less money if the fans don’t get on the back of new arrivals (imagine if we signed Dawson, our fans would have been up in arms)
Winks IMO could still come good, but I think it’s an area that he isn’t as good as what we have now. I’d keep him for homegrown and club trained though

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes, Rose for sure. Foyth has been mismanaged for sure, by both Poch and Mourinho. He has quality on the ball IMO but it's easy money.

Still leaves us with a lot of players.

I really wanted to see Foyth at RB.
That was part of Poch plan but he barely gave him any time there
I remember talking to a Micky Hazard about it and he said he had al the attributes but none of the time... I think he was referring to game time

 

[thfcsteff]

I’m crediting him for saying what others are scared to say and I’m calling out there double standards
There are people in the media saying our squad is more than good enough to be CL and better ... people on here say it too
But the same media are also saying that Kane should leave to go to a clubs like Chelsea or united as their better (yet also say we’re as good as them squad wise)
So what’s the issue?
Is the squad good enough (I don’t think so personally any I’m still amazed people in the media count the players starting who also played a CL final 2 years ago without recognising some of those have got notably worse as players as they have got older)
The reality is IMO we have a manager draining the players (at least redknapp had the balls to say it), but we also have players who just aren’t as good as they were, or simply haven’t progressed at all and need to leave.
We need 2/3 key signings and a new manager
And when I say media I mean sky and the athletic of late.

Fair enough.

I think this side, in this season especially, could've made top 4 with better coaching, absolutely, 100%. You have two top strikers on career-high seasons as it is, and if we had a coach who could commit to front-foot football, we'd have a couple of midfielders chipping in with 10-12 too.

I think most sensible people recognize we are 2-3 players short in the squad. I'd say most sensible people recognize we need a new manager, but there are some real hardheads out there.

 

[billyiddo]

Yes.
But that wasn't about turfing out a whole side.
The "painful" bit was letting Eriksen go when Barca might've bought, letting Toby go, letting go of the "punts" taken when primary targets weren't given (Janssen) as opposed to holding on for very top dollar, and trusting the manager. Think Coutinho-Klopp-LFC. He was given short-thrift.
This has all been beaten to death a hundred times over.

It was also said 4 windows, 13 players and 160m net, ago. Bulk of the work has been done, we need to strengthen and trim in certain areas not a total overhaul.

 

[thfcsteff]

Aurier wants out now IMO. He was really really good until jan. no new contract has probably influenced his game
Sanchez just needs a new start and we can get better for much less money if the fans don’t get on the back of new arrivals (imagine if we signed Dawson, our fans would have been up in arms)
Winks IMO could still come good, but I think it’s an area that he isn’t as good as what we have now. I’d keep him for homegrown and club trained though

In the ideal world an upgrade on Aurier would be great, but I do think a new manager could get short bounce from him. I think you're right though re: contract/he wants to leave.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fair enough.

I think this side, in this season especially, could've made top 4 with better coaching, absolutely, 400%. You have two top strikers on career-high seasons as it is, and if we had a coach who could commit to front-foot football, we'd have a couple of midfielders chipping in with 10-12 too.

I think most sensible people recognize we are 2-3 players short in the squad. I'd say most sensible people recognize we need a new manager, but there are some real hardheads out there.

I honestly think that without capable for Hojdjerg and 2 decent CBS we would always struggle
The team can’t do the basics well enough and I genuinely wonder now if the team is fit enough too. Sounds basic bu5 is that why we drop second half top...
football isn’t played on paper but seeing the lune up yesterday I wouldnt have swapped many players with united. They tore us apart that second half, which shows how wrong I would be

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In the ideal world an upgrade on Aurier would be great, but I do think a new manager could get short bounce from him. I think you're right though re: contract/he wants to leave.

If Aurier wanted to stay I say get rid of a Doherty. I think he has clearly kicked a few black cats and maybe run them over on his way to training but he looks shot here.
But if we got in a genuine coach like Potter for example he has a variety in his game that could suit him.
Could also go for Finneys favourite Bogle from Sheffield
And I’ve been really impressed with Fulham’s fullbacks who I believe are on loan (Aina is the guy)
Deals can be done
Could go out and get in Andersen for £25m from Lyon, maybe the beast Vetsergaard from Southampton for £20m giving us an all danish Cb pairing (remember those days of the Belgians)
Add in Bogle maybe for £15m and the defence is transformed
But if course this is me playing football manager

 

[thfcsteff]

I honestly think that without capable for Hojdjerg and 2 decent CBS we would always struggle
The team can’t do the basics well enough and I genuinely wonder now if the team is fit enough too. Sounds basic bu5 is that why we drop second half top...
football isn’t played on paper but seeing the lune up yesterday I wouldnt have swapped many players with united. They tore us apart that second half, which shows how wrong I would be

Yes, Hojberg's squad equal is helping promote Norwich.
I believe a lot of our problems are due to lack of identity and fear.

 

[Pirate55]

Yes, Rose for sure. Foyth has been mismanaged for sure, by both Poch and Mourinho. He has quality on the ball IMO but it's easy money.

Still leaves us with a lot of players.

We could lose as many as 12 substandard players and bring in 4 quality recruits with little or no additional expense - and significant savings on the wage bill.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

A few things I'll take away from that game...

Oddly enough, I don't think the players' attitude was at fault, for once. They fought for every ball and really looked like they wanted to win this one. Unfortunately, that shows that this squad is definitely not good enough for Top 4. We just have too many weak areas at the moment. It's easy to say that they'd perform differently under another manager but a) the same could be said for Fulham or West Brom and b) there's a complete lack of balance within the squad.

Looking back, it's also interesting to see the difference in Mourinho's attitude compared to September or October. He looked a lot more... involved, for lack of a better word, back then. We looked like we had gameplans for every situation: when we went down at Old Trafford or against Chelsea in the League Cup, we still had it in us to turn things around. On Sunday, on the other hand... then again, maybe it's in the eye of the beholder. Maybe I've grown tired of half-assed performances and unfortunate turns of event. In any case, I never felt we could find a way back, despite the fact that the players kept on trying. Ironically, I think we were 3rd or something over the last six games before the week-end.

It's also worth noting that United played roughly the same number of games as we did, so fatigue can't be an excuse there, particularly when they walked all over us in the second half.

On a more controversial note, if someone was crazy enough to meet the 200m asking price, I think we should cash in on Kane. He's an outstanding player but that's the problem: he's outstanding. We don't have a single player on his level or even close to that - Son is the only exception but he's a form player. The lack of balance works both ways and at the moment, I think we'd be better off with 4 or 5 new players who'd be good enough to fight for a Top 4 spot. Kane is good enough to win the Champions League but here, he doesn't have the players around him to make the most of his talent, and I don't believe a new manager would turn Lucas, Aurier or Lo Celso into world-beaters.