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***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs West Ham United OMT***

tommysvr said:
I don't think we'll concede goals like those in too many games. One was a double deflection that fell right into Bowen's path, the second a poor backpass and a keeper pushing the ball out to their player, who still needed a very kind rebound off the post to score.
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The point is we should never have been in a position to concede either goal. Son's right to complain about the 'softness' of his team mates. With the credibility Big Ange has already established, Levy is gonna dump whomever Ange points to this coming off season and find the funds for replacements who show the required mental strength. I'm not gonna name names - like fcuk you ain't. ed. - Emerson, Sessegnon, Gil, Dier, Richarlison, even Yves Bissouma - but certain players aren't showing enough of what it takes even after multiple opportunities to display their capabilities. And Brennan Johnson? Like you a lot but times ticking, boychuk. Git 'er done.

Either step up or prepare to step away. Big Ange Ball is a giant magnet now for players who want to play exciting football. But it requires mental strength - focus, concentration, preparation, execution. There's the rest of this season to show those qualities. If not, toodle pip, old chap. You'll be toast.
 
I think last night has broken me a bit lol. How can we play so well in that first half, dominate possession, camp out in their half, have them panicking at the back (How many times did Fabianski just hoof it away under pressure? or their defenders just clear it out for a throw in because we suffocated them!?)
If a team can play as brick as West Ham did last night and still find a way to score 2 goals then football feels broken
 
Bishop said:
I don't think it's a lack of conviction, it's a lack of quality and ability. Arguably GLC can do better, but the rest of the midfielders and attacking players just aren't eye of the needle threaded through ball players and that's what we needed last night. We needed what Maddison and Sarr to an extent bring to the table.
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I disagree. Johnson had the beating of his man but checked back too many times, Deki had multiple opportunities to shoot and didn't take them, instead wanting to take one more touch or one more pass, Bissouma broke through the middle many times and simply stopped as he got close to the box, and even Udogie seemed unwilling to take advantage of some great opportunitues to look for a position. IMO last night we saw West Ham pinned back but certainly not closing their lines/spaces anything like as much as they eventually did after going 2-1 up. Of course we miss Maddison dearly, but I'd say as much for the impudence and swagger he brings (oh alright, the passing too!!!!)...



Bishop said:
Truly penetrative passing, you can train a system and you can encourage the players but if they fundementally lack that ability it's not going to happen. You need vision first coupled with genuine top quality technique to pull off the incisive pass and looking at Johnson, Kulu, Hojberg and Bissouma that just isn't in their makeup.

Even GLC who should be able to play them is more of a rotational passer than an incisive one. Until Maddison is back or Sarr can take on more of the brunt of it we will struggle against deeper sat teams. We do have the right type of midfielders in the squad, it's just they injured (Maddison and Bentancur). We saw what Bentancur brought to the table in the first half Vs Villa.

You keep saying gifted for both goals. The first wasn't a gift, it was their shot and it rebounded to them. It wasn't even a double deflection as some are saying it was blocked and then deflected, unfortunate yes but there was no mistake from us, no lazy play, no element of we should have done better there. It was just unlucky not a gift. They 100% deserved that goal because they made it entirely from Thier own endeavour.

The second I agree was a gift, a lazy soft back pass from Udogie that created the chance for them. Yes a gift but their first was not.

The game was a 1-1 and we then created our one genuine quality chance and were unable to finish it. Other than that as I keep saying I don't believe we really threatened mich. Play as we did today all season and we won't score many and we will draw and lose quite a few.
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I agree, my mistake, the first concession was gross misfortune.

PEH and Biss are not those players, agreed. Johnson and Deki aren't 'needle threaders' but each has potential devastation if they'd believe more and think less. Sarr is a wonderful carrier and player overall, but don't think he is necessarily a Pirlo passer.
 
Grays_1890 said:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1732905352948019477
Bang on and he is at least not shying away from it
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Wow, I kind of feel bad for the Spurs PR guy, he was pretty brutal in cutting through the flimflam there!

Even the comms on Prime were making out we were brilliant in the first half, yeah we had the ball but we forced a team to defend who love defending and didn't really create good chances. It was an oddly tentative performance, no doubt it's going to be argued that their goals were lucky but we're in a phase of being very leaky and opponents are getting a chance one way or another.

I'm interested in whether Son's runs were bad or just that nobody was looking to find him, or if it's about teams defending deep then having another way to play because the amount of passing back, recycling the ball rinse and repeat until just banging a cross in was inspiring, no conviction as Ange said.

Sometimes when I've seen Johnson play he looks like a natural finishing wise, but last night was so awkward in about 4 opportunities. Not sure if it's a confidence thing and it's possibly unfair to single him out as no one looked brilliant in that regard last night.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Wow, I kind of feel bad for the Spurs PR guy, he was pretty brutal in cutting through the flimflam there!

Even the comms on Prime were making out we were brilliant in the first half, yeah we had the ball but we forced a team to defend who love defending and didn't really create good chances. It was an oddly tentative performance, no doubt it's going to be argued that their goals were lucky but we're in a phase of being very leaky and opponents are getting a chance one way or another.

I'm interested in whether Son's runs were bad or just that nobody was looking to find him, or if it's about teams defending deep then having another way to play because the amount of passing back, recycling the ball rinse and repeat until just banging a cross in was inspiring, no conviction as Ange said.

Sometimes when I've seen Johnson play he looks like a natural finishing wise, but last night was so awkward in about 4 opportunities. Not sure if it's a confidence thing and it's possibly unfair to single him out as no one looked brilliant in that regard last night.
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See I don't think it was great defending by West ham in the first half, I don't think that was their game plan. If it was they really weren't doing it very well, we were cutting through them and at times they didn't know what direction they were facing they were so bewildered.
Our final ball was poor, our finishing not great and when Romero scored I felt a little robbed because we had scored from a dead ball and not from one of the beautiful flowing moves we had put together.
For me we were to relentless, we never allowed them out of their box, we never created space, they would have pushed up because you can't defend like that in your own box and not expect to concede.
The goals we conceded are exactly the kind of goals I would have expected WH to concede on the balance of play in first 30 mins. In an area so congested deflections, poor passes, lapses in concentration are bound to happen.
WH rode their luck at both ends of the pitch and took advantage of it, we didn’t.
 
I'm getting used to us coming out of the traps like a missile against those teams that are setup up to absorb and score on the break, and the momentum we generate seems to fizzle a touch if it doesn't go our way by around minute 25. This reflects what Ange is saying about belief.

Wet Spam parked two banks of four in front of us last night and said "go ahead" - in truth we never actually did. We scored from a corner, but the inverted winger last night was our downfall - time after time we were in need of someone getting to the bye line and then putting it in the mixer - we do it so well along the ground since Ange arrived - that was what was needed - a ball into an area where they can't play percentages. If we'd flipped Deki and Johnson even for 10 minutes in the first half it might have been very different because both could still come inside but their strength would be to go outside.

Instead what we got was a pausing, hovering Deki who didn't lose the ball but had to recycle back to PEH, and on the other side we lost the ball a lot with Udogie and Johnson trying stuff and it not coming off.

Lo Celso was also stifled a lot last night as through the middle was not where we were going to beat them.

The next evolution of this team (once everyone is fit also) is that we will go for the jugular, and work out how to beat teams who park the bus.

As to their goals - complete luck on the second, a couple of mistakes for the first, but we've been lucky and taken it, so we need to accept it when it goes against us.

I suspect we may shoot rather a lot more against the Geordies this weekend.
 
glasgowspur said:
See I don't think it was great defending by West ham in the first half, I don't think that was their game plan. If it was they really weren't doing it very well, we were cutting through them and at times they didn't know what direction they were facing they were so bewildered.
Our final ball was poor, our finishing not great and when Romero scored I felt a little robbed because we had scored from a dead ball and not from one of the beautiful flowing moves we had put together.
For me we were to relentless, we never allowed them out of their box, we never created space, they would have pushed up because you can't defend like that in your own box and not expect to concede.
The goals we conceded are exactly the kind of goals I would have expected WH to concede on the balance of play in first 30 mins. In an area so congested deflections, poor passes, lapses in concentration are bound to happen.
WH rode their luck at both ends of the pitch and took advantage of it, we didn’t.
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Which would all be fine, had it not now happened in three games in a month. It’s an emerging pattern which needs addressing. I’m sure Ange and his team are all over it. My feeling is that we still don’t have the players to properly implement the system beyond our first choice eleven. Last night finished me with Richarlison, and I’ve been finished with Hojberg for a year or more.
 
Mikey10 said:
Which would all be fine, had it not now happened in three games in a month. It’s an emerging pattern which needs addressing. I’m sure Ange and his team are all over it. My feeling is that we still don’t have the players to properly implement the system beyond our first choice eleven. Last night finished me with Richarlison, and I’ve been finished with Hojberg for a year or more.
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It's fine because it's still very early days, we are one window and 16 games in.
If it was this time next year I would be more concerned.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Wow, I kind of feel bad for the Spurs PR guy, he was pretty brutal in cutting through the flimflam there!

Even the comms on Prime were making out we were brilliant in the first half, yeah we had the ball but we forced a team to defend who love defending and didn't really create good chances. It was an oddly tentative performance, no doubt it's going to be argued that their goals were lucky but we're in a phase of being very leaky and opponents are getting a chance one way or another.

I'm interested in whether Son's runs were bad or just that nobody was looking to find him, or if it's about teams defending deep then having another way to play because the amount of passing back, recycling the ball rinse and repeat until just banging a cross in was inspiring, no conviction as Ange said.

Sometimes when I've seen Johnson play he looks like a natural finishing wise, but last night was so awkward in about 4 opportunities. Not sure if it's a confidence thing and it's possibly unfair to single him out as no one looked brilliant in that regard last night.
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We've played good football and won football games.

We've played good football and lost football games.

We (fans, Spurs media) don't need to 'get away from' highlighting that if it's a truth.
Ange was really happy with complementing the team himself recently BUT has changed his tune (feeling some pressure?) as he knows full well it's a results business.

Tbh I think these post match interviews still catch him at a time he's processing things. Much like us it was a result that niggled.
 
billyiddo said:
We've seen plenty of games over the last few years where we come up against an opposition who is happy to sit back, frustrate and counter one or two times a half. This evening i felt, mostly from the first half tbf, that we were a lot more assured in trying to break that sort of approach down than anything i can remember going back to the Poch days (even back then it was still a crux for us with multiple match winners on the pitch) the game was played deeper in the opponents half than what we have been used to and the speed of pass and movement off the ball again was much better (for the most part) - so despite the result there's still signs we're moving in the right direction.
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Indeed, definite evidence that the future is bright. The fact that we can still play our game with at least one CB who is a full back, and the likes of Bentancur and Maddison missing which massively takes away from our creativity and against teams sitting back still impose ourselves and look a threat is really encouraging.

Because in a year or so time I guarantee our depth in quality will be better in both the CM and attacking areas and we will yield better results when we have to use the squad whether it be for rotation or injuries....
 
Daisuk said:
In the second half we didn't create much at all. We had some shots, but very few clear cut chances.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1732884936728662505
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xG is sometimes nonsense. West Ham’s is skewed because they effectively had 2 open goals (scoring from the second.) 23 shots is still 23 shots. Whether you consider them good quality or not. We scored 1, Zouma hit the post, Richarlison missed a very clear cut header, Porro forced a good save from Fabianski and we had decent positions squandered by poor decision making and shooting. 23 shots isn’t some anomaly stat…it proves that we created things.

That’s not to say we played well in the second half — it was extremely disappointing. But we most certainly did enough to win that game, and lost it through poor attacking play and 2 horrendously silly goals.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think that’s harsh but the sentiment is right
Some players don’t fit and click at clubs
I think his limitations are exaggerated playing for us because we play such technical football
But him in a Moyes team or a Dyche team would excel
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Yeah think I've reached the end of the road with him. Expected him to be so much better than he has been. I don't think that chance last night was a gimme by any stretch but he should have scored. Been the story of his spell here sadly,
 
spurspinter1 said:
Wow, I kind of feel bad for the Spurs PR guy, he was pretty brutal in cutting through the flimflam there!

Even the comms on Prime were making out we were brilliant in the first half, yeah we had the ball but we forced a team to defend who love defending and didn't really create good chances. It was an oddly tentative performance, no doubt it's going to be argued that their goals were lucky but we're in a phase of being very leaky and opponents are getting a chance one way or another.

I'm interested in whether Son's runs were bad or just that nobody was looking to find him, or if it's about teams defending deep then having another way to play because the amount of passing back, recycling the ball rinse and repeat until just banging a cross in was inspiring, no conviction as Ange said.

Sometimes when I've seen Johnson play he looks like a natural finishing wise, but last night was so awkward in about 4 opportunities. Not sure if it's a confidence thing and it's possibly unfair to single him out as no one looked brilliant in that regard last night.
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Agree with all of this
And Johnson wasn’t the only one with weak shots
So frustrating….
 
DeanoAustin said:
Yeah think I've reached the end of the road with him. Expected him to be so much better than he has been. I don't think that chance last night was a gimme by any stretch but he should have scored. Been the story of his spell here sadly,
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He should have hit the target
That’s the expectation from me for every chance when your in front of goal… maybe harshly of course

The key is, if that’s his strength, then how bad are the weaknesses
 
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