***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs West Ham United OMT***

[tommysvr]

The second half reminded me of the last 20-30 minutes against Liverpool.
We were huffing and puffing and never looked like scoring against 10/11 men in a low block.
Saying that , you are allowed to win 1-0 sometimes , all the other top sies grind out dull 1-0 wins then talking about not being clinical enough would just be secondary chat after stuff like : we defended well , saw the game out comfortably, result was never in doubt , we got the job done and onto the next one etc etc

Sounds like Conte and Mourinho. If that's what you're looking for, you won't enjoy Ange's time. He's very much about winning the game by killing it off (scoring more goals). He doesn't sit on 1-0 leads.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Didn’t see the game, but fudge me that’s a shocker of a result to come out of the Christmas party to.

We need to learn how to keep a clean sheet smartish, that’s what wins you football matches.

Two freaky goals that we conceeded. One a shot that pings off two defenders like a pinball game, and somehow arks perfectly for bowen to have a free shot and score. The other a very tired backpass. Which Vicario could hold and save but it would have been a fk. There's no time to think so he punches it away. Wham get free shot at an empty goal from his punch, but hit the post! Amazingly the ball just pops back perfectly off the post for him to have a second attempt at hitting empty net.

I know I did, but you couldn't write it.

 

[seaside spur]

Manager made the wrong sub in bringing off Hojbjerg instead of Bissouma IMO. Hojbjerg was having a bigger impact on the game than Biss.

We conceded two poor goals but didn’t create enough ourselves today. I thought West Ham’s centre backs played very well. For us Romero and and Hojbjerg were our best players, not much of note from anyone else.

Yep , Bissouma was once again poor. Seems he's undroppable and unsubable.
Doesn't protect his defenders behind him, when have you ever seen him teasing the game and getting his defenders out of trouble like Rice or Rodri does? , can't pick a meaningful pass , doesn't assist , doesn't score and lately has been so sloppy. Comparing him to Declan Rice is laughable , the guys a monster at both ends of the pitch.

 

[SpurMeUp]

At the other end against a deep block we scored from Romeros header. Lo Celco had a clear volly at goal, but it was too straight right at the keeper. The Johnson cross was almost a goal, an inch in it. We had adundent half chances from a long list of players, but no one produced the goods.

I am not upset by the overall performance. But the result is hard to take.

 

[seaside spur]

Sounds like Conte and Mourinho. If that's what you're looking for, you won't enjoy Ange's time. He's very much about winning the game by killing it off (scoring more goals). He doesn't sit on 1-0 leads.

Nah I didn't say that. What I said is you won't always be able to kill off teams by being clinical. You can still then hold onto what you have while still try to finish the game off. City , the goons , Saudi Sportswashing Machine and especially Utd have all done this repeatedly this season.
Is it unreasonable to expect us to hold onto a lead against a team that barely crossed the halfway line and tbh were the worst team I've seen us play this season. I include Sheff Utd in that as they caused us a few problems on the counter and scored a good goal unlike the spammers.

 

[tommysvr]

Nah I didn't say that. What I said is you won't always be able to kill off teams by being clinical. You can still then hold onto what you have while still try to finish the game off. City , the goons , Saudi Sportswashing Machine and especially Utd have all done this repeatedly this season.
Is it unreasonable to expect us to hold onto a lead against a team that barely crossed the halfway line and tbh were the worst team I've seen us play this season. I include Sheff Utd in that as they caused us a few problems on the counter and scored a good goal unlike the spammers.

I don't think we'll concede goals like those in too many games. One was a double deflection that fell right into Bowen's path, the second a poor backpass and a keeper pushing the ball out to their player, who still needed a very kind rebound off the post to score.

 

[90291Spur]

Yep , Bissouma was once again poor. Seems he's undroppable and unsubable.
Doesn't protect his defenders behind him, when have you ever seen him teasing the game and getting his defenders out of trouble like Rice or Rodri does? , can't pick a meaningful pass , doesn't assist , doesn't score and lately has been so sloppy. Comparing him to Declan Rice is laughable , the guys a monster at both ends of the pitch.

You might not have noticed, but we have an injury crisis. One that has hit the midfield hard.

 

[seaside spur]

I don't think we'll concede goals like those in too many games. One was a double deflection that fell right into Bowen's path, the second a poor backpass and a keeper pushing the ball out to their player, who still needed a very kind rebound off the post to score.

I agree , they got lucky but what really disappointed me was the way we started the second half. Gave the ball away countless times in the first five minutes and wasn't moving to give the man on the ball any options. I said to someone I was watching the game with that we had come out like a Sunday league team and we wouldn't keep a clean sheet , although I was still trying to work out how they were going to score as they were offering zero threat. We encouraged them back into the game and then they started pressing harder. Totally down to us , it was as if they had been in a hot tub during the half time break and came out so chilled and relaxed they were nearly falling asleep. Just awful start to the second half and I don't think we ever recovered from it.

 

[seaside spur]

You might not have noticed, but we have an injury crisis. One that has hit the midfield hard.

Sarr should have been brought on earlier. Lo Celso was the one midfielder that should have stayed in tonight. Terrible subs , including pushing Son out wide. He's not effective out there in this system.

 

[tommysvr]

I agree , they got lucky but what really disappointed me was the way we started the second half. Gave the ball away countless times in the first five minutes and wasn't moving to give the man on the ball any options. I said to someone I was watching the game with that we had come out like a Sunday league team and we wouldn't keep a clean sheet , although I was still trying to work out how they write young to score as they were offering zero threat. We encouraged them back into the game and then they started pressing harder. Totally down to us , it was as if they had been in a hot tub during the half time break and came out so chilled and relaxed they were nearly talking asleep. Just awful start to the second half and I don't think we ever recovered from it.

I totally agree with that. The second half was really poor, and it just felt to me...almost arrogant. Like we could just keep playing and expect things to work out.

 

[90291Spur]

Sarr should have been brought on earlier. Lo Celso was the one midfielder that should have stayed in tonight. Terrible subs , including pushing Son out wide. He's not effective out there in this system.

Maybe Sarr didn’t have more minutes in his legs, hence coming on late. And Lo Celso looked gassed. We can all suggest our preferred changes, but I don’t think anyone on here knows the fitness situations in the squad.

 

[Lilbaz]

Fair play to him there.

One thing I notice with Ange, he’s a phenomenal speaker and you could imagine wanting to run through a brick wall after one of his speeches. But he always seems to be looking at the floor and away from the camera.

Ok.

 

[mudshark]

Fair play to him there.

One thing I notice with Ange, he’s a phenomenal speaker and you could imagine wanting to run through a brick wall after one of his speeches. But he always seems to be looking at the floor and away from the camera.

Proud graduate of the Gerry Francis School of Media Training.

 

[mudshark]

I'm clinging to the hope that, when we get the two players who are key to Postecoglou's system back (v. de Ven and Maddison, in case there's anyone out there that has been paying less attention than Bozo the Clown in a SAGE briefing) and especially if we can make a couple of important squad upgrades next month as well, then we can quickly become competitive again. An old school-friend of mine who's been a regular for even longer than I have is beginning to draw comparisons with the Ossie experiment. I think that's verging on crazy talk at this stage, personally, but it can't be denied that losing back-to-back home games in the manner we just have represents something of a wee red flag. I think AP needs to demonstrate getting a grip on that aspect of things in particular, and sooner rather than later. I'd really hate to see us drifting towards territory where Levy might panic, flip-flop again and bounce into replacing him with another defensive coach.

 

[90291Spur]

I agree , they got lucky but what really disappointed me was the way we started the second half. Gave the ball away countless times in the first five minutes and wasn't moving to give the man on the ball any options. I said to someone I was watching the game with that we had come out like a Sunday league team and we wouldn't keep a clean sheet , although I was still trying to work out how they were going to score as they were offering zero threat. We encouraged them back into the game and then they started pressing harder. Totally down to us , it was as if they had been in a hot tub during the half time break and came out so chilled and relaxed they were nearly falling asleep. Just awful start to the second half and I don't think we ever recovered from it.

Gawd! Please make this kind of comment if Ange has a close to full squad and this sort of thing continues. It’s gutting to be on the run that we are results wise, but the man barely has his feet under his desk and has more than a third of his squad injured (and many of them not fit for his purpose either).

 

[Bishop]

But I think if you're honest, you'll recognise exactly what is being generally said by some of us. We are creating that chances to have loads of chances, what is lacking is an ounce of belief and conviction to take that shot or slide that final ball. I think some players tonight also need an extra insurance touch, and will also naturally look laterally or back rather than play the 'risk' game. Since VdV has been hurt, that has increased as the players know their 'cheat mode' leaves them a bit more exposed if a risk taken goes wrong. I sense Ange wants that changed ASAP.

I don't think it's a lack of conviction, it's a lack of quality and ability. Arguably GLC can do better, but the rest of the midfielders and attacking players just aren't eye of the needle threaded through ball players and that's what we needed last night. We needed what Maddison and Sarr to an extent bring to the table.

Truly penetrative passing, you can train a system and you can encourage the players but if they fundementally lack that ability it's not going to happen. You need vision first coupled with genuine top quality technique to pull off the incisive pass and looking at Johnson, Kulu, Hojberg and Bissouma that just isn't in their makeup.

Even GLC who should be able to play them is more of a rotational passer than an incisive one. Until Maddison is back or Sarr can take on more of the brunt of it we will struggle against deeper sat teams. We do have the right type of midfielders in the squad, it's just they injured (Maddison and Bentancur). We saw what Bentancur brought to the table in the first half Vs Villa.

In a game where the opposition are camped behind the ball in a low block, 1.8 xg isn't terrible at all. Because chances will be hard to come by. If we didn't give away a goal and scored our XG, which is closest to 2 goals, we win.

Of course we need to be better. But using XG in its limited way shows we created enough to get the win if we don't gift 2.

You keep saying gifted for both goals. The first wasn't a gift, it was their shot and it rebounded to them. It wasn't even a double deflection as some are saying it was blocked and then deflected, unfortunate yes but there was no mistake from us, no lazy play, no element of we should have done better there. It was just unlucky not a gift. They 100% deserved that goal because they made it entirely from Thier own endeavour.

The second I agree was a gift, a lazy soft back pass from Udogie that created the chance for them. Yes a gift but their first was not.

The game was a 1-1 and we then created our one genuine quality chance and were unable to finish it. Other than that as I keep saying I don't believe we really threatened mich. Play as we did today all season and we won't score many and we will draw and lose quite a few.

 

[Chrissivad]

The frustration part of the game yesterday was how slow we were once we got the ball forward.

We are going to concede goals with the way we play, giving other teams good chances to score, but we passes it around their box waiting for something to happen. And in a crowded box, that not going to happen often.

Romero and Kulusevski were guilty of receiving the ball and then just stopping. We let west ham get bodies back into position and into the box making it impossible to break down.

Best chances we had was then we got down the wings and cut the ball back into the box. But the final ball just didn't come off, but we had space and runners

 

[Junior19]

Yesterday, December 7, 2023—a date which will live in infamy—the mighty Spurs suddenly and deliberately caused their own downfall.

If anything, this game shows that we are far from the finished article. For long stretches of the match I sat with the feeling that this was a resurrected Pochettino-side, and not the good Pochettino-side.
Back then we also struggled when facing ultra low block, extremely defensive teams. There is a reason why teams play that way, and we should know, we've done it ourselves. It works, and it is extremely difficult to break down unless you are 100% on top of your game.
Yesterday we were not at our very best. We were brilliant in patches of the first half, up to the point where the ball was to be put in the net. But for the most, we lacked the pace, the crispness and rythm to penetrate two very low lines of defence.

Just like City should have been beyond our reach after the first half this weekend, this game should have been over by halftime. We didn't manage to do that, and that will always leave us open to counter.

 

[Robspur12]

There seems to be a pattern of us starting strongly then fading in the second half which hopefully Ange will address. As many have said though we are far from the finished article and need more depth especially up front and in Defence. But in Big Ange I trust.

 

[fernadez]

Same as every game this season.

You just can't batter a team for 45 mins and only score 1 goal.

They're always gonna come back at you

Just see Ange's quotes where he's said exactly the same