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*** Tottenham Hotspur vs Manchester United OMT ***

thfcsteff said:
I will say that at one point today I really felt we had to change our system. I PERSONALLY would've gone 3 at the back, taken Walker off and put Chiriches on to leave Vlad/Dier/Verts, pushed Rose up wide alongside Bentaleb and Mason, told Chadli to stay wide right for the width and pushed Dembele right up-top behind Kane. Not sure it would've made a huge difference, but I'd have liked to have seen it...still, I think he has done an excellent job thus far, and I suspect your question with regards to Levy's support is critical. Perhaps the most baffling thing about today is that accurately speaking, it was about as far from his usual pressing performances as we have seen for some time. He will quite rightly have been furious, and again, I expect some of those responsible to be taken to task.
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I mentioned some time ago that I felt with our current personnel that a set up with three centre backs and Rose and Walker playing wing backs might suit us better at the moment - and was largely pilloried for it!

I do agree with you that we do need to find a plan B when the preferred system isn't working. That is why in the Leicester thread, I also think it is worth trying playing with just one DM against lesser teams who park the bus.

I fully comprehend Poch ideally wants to play 4-2-3-1, but this shouldn't be a one size fits all, set in stone approach. He needs to be able to show some flexibility and imo now with the season virtually a dead rubber, it would be a good time to experiment. Nothing much to lose this season.
 
Bad, bad , bad day at the office. It had been a while since we'd had one of those. Hopefully, it will be a good while before we have another one.
 
SteveAWOL said:
FWIW...

In the first 11 PL games, when those 3 were regular starters, we averaged 1.3 points per game.

In the 6 reverse fixtures we have played thus far we have averaged 2.2 points per game.

In the 18 games since, that home loss to Stoke on Nov 9th, we have averaged 2pts per game.
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thanks - obviously it doesn't tell the whole story but it's encouraging nonetheless as you'd hope that upon starting his second season in charge he should know his strongest side from the off
 
Pirate55 said:
I mentioned some time ago that I felt with our current personnel that a set up with three centre backs and Rose and Walker playing wing backs might suit us better at the moment - and was largely pilloried for it!

I do agree with you that we do need to find a plan B when the preferred system isn't working. That is why in the Leicester thread, I also think it is worth trying playing with just one DM against lesser teams who park the bus.

I fully comprehend Poch ideally wants to play 4-2-3-1, but this shouldn't be a one size fits all, set in stone approach. He needs to be able to show some flexibility and imo now with the season virtually a dead rubber, it would be a good time to experiment. Nothing much to lose this season.
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I missed that, can I pillory you now?

we don't have 2 decent cb's let alone 3
 
[QUOTE="Leaving yesterday i walked away with more of an acknowledgement that LVG was very clever rather than anything else[/QUOTE]

Exactly how I saw hit watching in glorious technicolor here in the US. LVG out foxed Poch with his set up and tactics. I think that Poch will have learned a valuable lesson up at Old Trafford
 
Pirate55 said:
I mentioned some time ago that I felt with our current personnel that a set up with three centre backs and Rose and Walker playing wing backs might suit us better at the moment - and was largely pilloried for it!

I do agree with you that we do need to find a plan B when the preferred system isn't working. That is why in the Leicester thread, I also think it is worth trying playing with just one DM against lesser teams who park the bus.

I fully comprehend Poch ideally wants to play 4-2-3-1, but this shouldn't be a one size fits all, set in stone approach. He needs to be able to show some flexibility and imo now with the season virtually a dead rubber, it would be a good time to experiment. Nothing much to lose this season.
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Whilst I fully agree with your point that we need to find a plan B and this certainly cannot be a 'one size fits all' approach , I think that Sunday's game was just one of those days where a relatively inexperienced manager got caught out by an old hand and some of our youngsters froze. I'd also suggest that the season is far from a dead rubber, we have 27 points to play for and that is an awful lot of football to be played by us and our rivals.

Finally, I must again comment on your suggestion that we play three at the back, I understand why you are suggesting it, but far from being pilloried last time you mentioned ithis, it was pointed out that we simply do not have the quality of personnel at CB to play that kind of system. I think the potential for it to go horribly wrong very quickly were we to adopt that system is huge. Lets face it they were slap dash at the back on Sunday playing a system they were supposed to understand, Lord help us if we go to a back three at present.
 
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billyiddo said:
thanks - obviously it doesn't tell the whole story but it's encouraging nonetheless as you'd hope that upon starting his second season in charge he should know his strongest side from the off
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Yup, fingers crossed that all the dross is offloaded this summer and we'll be averaging 2pts per game over the entirety of next season. As 76pts would've been enough to qualify for the CL in 9 of the past 10 seasons.

galeforce said:
I missed that, can I pillory you now?

we don't have 2 decent cb's let alone 3
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Whaaaaaaat :eek:

Kaboul + Capoue + Chiriches = defensive problems sorted!!
 
Yermiyahu said:
Whilst I fully agree with your point that we need to find a plan B and this certainly cannot be a 'one size fits all' approach , I think that Sunday's game was just one of those days where a relatively inexperienced manager got caught out by an old hand and some of our youngsters froze. I'd also suggest that the season is far from a dead rubber, we have 27 points to play for and that is an awful lot of football to be played by us and our rivals.

Finally, I must again comment on your suggestion that we play three at the back, I understand why you are suggesting it, but far from being pilloried last time you mentioned ithis, it was pointed out that we simply do not have the quality of personnel at CB to play that kind of system. I think the potential for it to go horribly wrong very quickly were we to adopt that system is huge. Lets face it they were slap dash at the back on Sunday playing a system they were supposed to understand, Lord help us if we go to a back three at present.
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While I generally take on board and agree with you that footballers in general ( and possibly ours in particular ) find it difficult to adapt to new playing styles, this may not always necessarily be the case. Two quick examples, Since Liverpool changed to three at the back they immediately started to fly. Last season, when Sherwood started two up front we suddenly started scoring goals.

While changes of system are not necessarily a panacea, when plan A isn't working, we need to find a plan B. In too many games this season, 4231 has proved ineffective and the team look impotent. Even games we have won, we have all too often squeaked home unconvincingly 2-1. When it isn't working, our system shows itself to be weak at the back, overwhelmed in midfield and underpowered up front. It is no good just trying more of the same and expecting a different result.That way madness lies.
 
ShelfLife said:
Bad, bad , bad day at the office. It had been a while since we'd had one of those. Hopefully, it will be a good while before we have another one.
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Yes I think that game showed that we are not quite there yet in terms of top four but hopefully next season this will change with a few personnel out and and some new ones in.
 
Really bad day at the office. We have a very young team and a squad with a shortage of quality in depth (not a shortage in quantity though). It's not surprising that we have some bad days, even if it hurts then and there.

I wonder if the posters currently giving up on a top 4 finish would write off any of the other top 4 challengers in our position. Still a lot to fight for this season. With City's current run of poor form this might juts have been the hardest of our last 10 league games this season. A loss and people are throwing in the towel? Ghod...

Kandi1977 said:
Neither do 'Pool... Works fine anyway!
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Yermiyahu said:
Whilst I fully agree with your point that we need to find a plan B and this certainly cannot be a 'one size fits all' approach , I think that Sunday's game was just one of those days where a relatively inexperienced manager got caught out by an old hand and some of our youngsters froze. I'd also suggest that the season is far from a dead rubber, we have 27 points to play for and that is an awful lot of football to be played by us and our rivals.

Finally, I must again comment on your suggestion that we play three at the back, I understand why you are suggesting it, but far from being pilloried last time you mentioned ithis, it was pointed out that we simply do not have the quality of personnel at CB to play that kind of system. I think the potential for it to go horribly wrong very quickly were we to adopt that system is huge. Lets face it they were slap dash at the back on Sunday playing a system they were supposed to understand, Lord help us if we go to a back three at present.
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A plan B doesn't have to be a change in formation. Keeping the same formation doesn't mean a "one size fits all approach".

I agree. We're lacking consistency. Making drastic changes in our formation, changing to a back 3, doesn't sound like the thing that will give us consistency.

We don't have the wing backs in our squad to play a back 3 imo.
 
Oh. And I have to say that we faced a rather good looking United side. If it's by luck or by slowly learning his lessons LvG put out a very good side. 4 at the back. Carrick back from injury being his usual excellent self. Fellaini playing in the one role he's properly good in. Rooney up front. Mata in the side. Herrera in the side. Ashley Young back from injury.

It doesn't explain everything that went on. We were clearly way off our best, no excuses. But this United side was a lot better than some of the RvP and Falcao led shyte United sides we've seen this season.
 
braineclipse said:
Oh. And I have to say that we faced a rather good looking United side. If it's by luck or by slowly learning his lessons LvG put out a very good side. 4 at the back. Carrick back from injury being his usual excellent self. Fellaini playing in the one role he's properly good in. Rooney up front. Mata in the side. Herrera in the side. Ashley Young back from injury.

It doesn't explain everything that went on. We were clearly way off our best, no excuses. But this United side was a lot better than some of the RvP and Falcao led shyte United sides we've seen this season.
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Again I don't think they condo have done anything different when you look at their bench. They played very first team player that wasn't injured IMO
 
braineclipse said:
Oh. And I have to say that we faced a rather good looking United side. If it's by luck or by slowly learning his lessons LvG put out a very good side. 4 at the back. Carrick back from injury being his usual excellent self. Fellaini playing in the one role he's properly good in. Rooney up front. Mata in the side. Herrera in the side. Ashley Young back from injury.

It doesn't explain everything that went on. We were clearly way off our best, no excuses. But this United side was a lot better than some of the RvP and Falcao led shyte United sides we've seen this season.
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We were a tad unfortunate that Carrick happened to return from injury to start a PL game for the first time in 2 months, as he clearly makes their midfield tick and has an eye for a pass that few others are blessed with.

https://twitter.com/x/status/577166425648926720
https://twitter.com/x/status/577177607235616768
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They have spent £160m and still lack anything resembling a squad and look imo weaker than us

Yes they beat us and battered us in that first half. Yes we were atrocious and made them look great but I still wouldn't be surprised to see us finish above them
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I admire your optimism, but I can't share it. The minimum number of points Man U have taken from any stretch of 9 games this season is 13, and that was from their first 9 outings. Their median return from any run of 9 games is 18 points (with a mean of 18.0 also). Our maximum is 22 (the run that preceded losing at Anfield), with a median of 17 (but a mean of only 15.7). I really think it highly unlikely we can make up 7 points on them in the games that are left (or 6 points and 20 goals).
 
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