*** Tottenham Hotspur vs Manchester United OMT ***

[Robspur12]

That is why. I wanted him to start but I don't believe he is an AM. For me am AM must create and score goals he is not very good at this, however, he does look after his FB, when he plays as LCM and is strong in terms of recovering the ball and tracking. Unfortunately, that means you must drop Mason or Bantaleb.

Apparently modric was one of the best AMs we have ever had yet he did not score many nor directly assists goals. What Dembele does very well as an AM is to win the ball high up the pitch and to move it around either by running with it or passing to our more creative players. IMO he should start most games.

 

[Hemant]

Souness, Neville and Hoddle pointing out we have no leadership now.
Needed someone on the pitch to see what was going wrong and offer leadership to fix it.

That assumes players are empowered to make these changes by the Manager, which we don't know? Players may have been manfully trying to do what they were instructed?
We looked lethargic and we know Poch likes to press, so perhaps the aim was to crowd the midfield, defend deep and play on the break, but we conceded early and it threw us.

 

[Joesh]

Arsenal finish top 4 every season because they consistently beat teams outside of the top 4-5. We need to focus on doing that now.

I agree, and my point was more that we could learn from how easy we were beaten today and use it against "lesser teams". I think the cup final and today showed that we are so weak under pressure, in a strange way we seem to respond better to being in losing position where in someways you have nothing to lose rather than be the team that dominates. Perhaps the biggest difference between us is the cups, as I said in the other thread, if CL is our goal, we should drop the others to our advantage.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That is why. I wanted him to start but I don't believe he is an AM. For me am AM must create and score goals he is not very good at this, however, he does look after his FB, when he plays as LCM and is strong in terms of recovering the ball and tracking. Unfortunately, that means you must drop Mason or Bantaleb.

He can play the number 10 role fine with some genuine Hold up play whcih we were really lacking today

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arsenal finish top 4 every season because they consistently beat teams outside of the top 4-5. We need to focus on doing that now.

I've said that for years... Beat the teams below you and you actually go upwards... Arsenal consistently beat the brick and rarely trouble the top sides and it doesn't hurt them

 

[Hemant]

Apparently modric was one of the best AMs we have ever had yet he did not score many nor directly assists goals. What Dembele does very well as an AM is to win the ball high up the pitch and to move it around either by running with it or passing to our more creative players. IMO he should start most games.

I agree Modric was not a classical AM a la Platini or Hoddle, however he did create more and assist more than Dembele does. Of course, he also had Bale and Lennon to release, which meant he didn't have to finish himself, also for a short time he had VDV occupying the AM space which meant Modric could control the game from a deeper position. But the key difference between Modric and Dembele, fir me, is that Modric was more two-footed and could go both ways, which limits Dembele in advanced positions.

 

[Joesh]

That assumes players are empowered to make these changes by the Manager, which we don't know? Players may have been manfully trying to do what they were instructed?
We looked lethargic and we know Poch likes to press, so perhaps the aim was to crowd the midfield, defend deep and play on the break, but we conceded early and it threw us.

I can't imagine with a week to plan that the idea Utd would score first would not have been planned for? This is a strange one, at one point after 20mins, you could hear either Harry or Andros say 'come on, lets start playing' through the mics, we just never got going, the pressure got to us as we knew we needed to win.

 

[diego_maradona]

I am terribly disappointed in the team today. I give them a lot of leeway for the most part but today we were well short of expectation. Expectation that this group of young lads have set for themselves. I'm sure it hurts. To be honest these performances are going to happen, but I thought after the Chelsea final I thought they were very driven to not let themselves down on a big stage the next time we had a crunch game. We folded far too easily and there were some glaring mistakes.

Tactically I think we looked short all over the park. But that is partly a result of them being gifted an easy start and growing in confidence while we visibly did the opposite. I wanted more but it's easy to forget how young the likes of Bentaleb and Kane are. We were bullied a bit today and thought we'd fight back a little harder. We were toothless.

 

[Joesh]

I agree Modric was not a classical AM a la Platini or Hoddle, however he did create more and assist more than Dembele does. Of course, he also had Bale and Lennon to release, which meant he didn't have to finish himself, also for a short time he had VDV occupying the AM space which meant Modric could control the game from a deeper position. But the key difference between Modric and Dembele, fir me, is that Modric was more two-footed and could go both ways, which limits Dembele in advanced positions.

Modric is a world class player, you could see even in Madrids recent "troubles", his instant impact of simple play and getting things going with simple 1-2's done with touches of class here and there, its harsh to try and put Dembele into his mould as it can't be done. Modric is a super clever unselfish team player who puts the team first, he doesn't have to shoot if he can for eg. put Bale or VDV through or a full back and get an unnoticed 2nd assist or simply keeping possession and keeping the tempo going.

 

[sc25]

I wanted more but it's easy to forget how young the likes of Bentaleb and Kane are.

Nah, we get reminded of it in just about every other post in here.

I feel like we didn't compete today, and we are not good enough to not do that especially at OT. Eriksen, to me, is a front runner too often. If all is well and we are dominating, and we feed him a lot in space, then he looks good. But you need your best player(s) to come up big in big games regardless of the circumstances around you and he didn't. He would be much better in a better team with better players around him. I suppose that could be said of many players, but certainly in his.

 

[Joesh]

I am terribly disappointed in the team today. I give them a lot of leeway for the most part but today we were well short of expectation. Expectation that this group of young lads have set for themselves. I'm sure it hurts. To be honest these performances are going to happen, but I thought after the Chelsea final I thought they were very driven to not let themselves down on a big stage the next time we had a crunch game. We folded far too easily and there were some glaring mistakes.

Tactically I think we looked short all over the park. But that is partly a result of them being gifted an easy start and growing in confidence while we visibly did the opposite. I wanted more but it's easy to forget how young the likes of Bentaleb and Kane are. We were bullied a bit today and thought we'd fight back a little harder. We were toothless.

Like Hoddle would say, I'm scratching my head to see where this came from. Its a strange performance to put in to words other than we never got going. I'd say only Rose and Kane can say they turned up, the rest collapsed almost like there was nothing to play for, with no belief. Young yes, but the lack of fight and spirit was deeply disappointing.

 

[Mumorn]

 

[Dr Rosenrosen]

Is it bad that watching Fellaini today made me miss Crouchie a little?

I'm well pleased to not revert to lumping it up to the big man as a philosophy, but it can be nice to have a focal point to knock down headers for players running on to them, the way he and VdV had a great partnership for a while. Plus a regular aerial threat on set pieces.

Anyway, I don't know if that would amount to progress or regress, but I will admit to having some of those thoughts today.

 

[wiziwig]

It's clear for all to see, that we're' not a good defensive unit, our lack of clean sheets shows this so I'm not going to slam individuals after a shocking team performance like today . I can accept defeat playing well but not when the opponent doesn't even have to break sweat for most of the game.

We've now conceded four at Emirates Marketing Project , three at Chavs , Liverpool, and now ManU but IMO, today's performance was by far the poorest . It was error strewn, lethargic and most annoyingly, I thought it was timid. It had an acceptance about it that the opponent is far superior.

Poch has a lot of work to do in the summer and I can't help but think, that new faces are needed and that they be players of the Edgar Davids , Naybet ilk, so as to help the young team through the tough times such as today.

Man Utd away is now gone - Leicester City home next. .....COYS!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's clear for all to see, that we're' not a good defensive unit, our lack of clean sheets shows this so I'm not going to slam individuals after a shocking team performance like today . I can accept defeat playing well but not when the opponent doesn't even have to break sweat for most of the game.

We've now conceded four at Emirates Marketing Project , three at Chavs , Liverpool, and now ManU but IMO, today's performance was by far the poorest . It was error strewn, lethargic and most annoyingly, I thought it was timid. It had an acceptance about it that the opponent is far superior.

Poch has a lot of work to do in the summer and I can't help but think, that new faces are needed and that they be players of the Edgar Davids , Naybet ilk, so as to help the young team through the tough times such as today.

Man Utd away is now gone - Leicester City home next. .....COYS!

The old adage is you defend from the front and that is the pressing game... We didn't press at all

Our wide players offered zero cover too

The problem we had today imo was that they played 4-1-4-1 in a manner that meant they were playing to score irrelevant of defending. Hence why Fellaini was always free and the ball was predominantly in our half. If we had took the lead they would have struggled as they would have to commit even more resource to attacking. The basis of their first goal was awful from out perspective and that was most disappointing.

Chaldi is a frustrating player. He battered Chelsea in the league yet today didn't offer anything at all and was arguably critically at fault for their first 2 goals

To beat at top team you can't carry players but it felt today like no one turned up other than rose from the outfield ones

 

[spurspinter1]

I am terribly disappointed in the team today. I give them a lot of leeway for the most part but today we were well short of expectation. Expectation that this group of young lads have set for themselves. I'm sure it hurts. To be honest these performances are going to happen, but I thought after the Chelsea final I thought they were very driven to not let themselves down on a big stage the next time we had a crunch game. We folded far too easily and there were some glaring mistakes.

Tactically I think we looked short all over the park. But that is partly a result of them being gifted an easy start and growing in confidence while we visibly did the opposite. I wanted more but it's easy to forget how young the likes of Bentaleb and Kane are. We were bullied a bit today and thought we'd fight back a little harder. We were toothless.

I was going to say "absolute dogbrick" and leave it at that but I think you've managed to word what I feel in a more eloquent way. Very strange game to watch, pretty horrendous in terms of how much space Utd were finding. There's not one player I'd really single out moreso than another for my rage either, just not at the races whatsoever for most of them.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Read somewhere that Poch gave the squad two days off after the QPR game but then doubled up on training to make up for it - that and no Europa fixture. So maybe that explains why they played like they'd just got back from the outer edges of Mongolia?

 

[wiziwig]

The old adage is you defend from the front and that is the pressing game... We didn't press at all

Our wide players offered zero cover too

The problem we had today imo was that they played 4-1-4-1 in a manner that meant they were playing to score irrelevant of defending. Hence why Fellaini was always free and the ball was predominantly in our half. If we had took the lead they would have struggled as they would have to commit even more resource to attacking. The basis of their first goal was awful from out perspective and that was most disappointing.

Chaldi is a frustrating player. He battered Chelsea in the league yet today didn't offer anything at all and was arguably critically at fault for their first 2 goals

To beat at top team you can't carry players but it felt today like no one turned up other than rose from the outfield ones

Before the game , loads were saying we would press their defenders into mistakes . I saw Kane try to do this but unlike previous good pressing performances by our forwards, he seemed to be doing this alone . I felt the three in behind were invisible and not working hard enough and I said as much within five minutes of the kick-off.

The four up top, have got to offer their optimum levels or the Poch pressing system falls apart and that's why I'm much happier seeing Dembele and Lamela in the starting eleven, more so against the top sides.

Agree with you regarding Rose and I would add Kane for the effort too.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Before the game , loads were saying we would press their defenders into mistakes . I saw Kane try to do this but unlike previous good pressing performances by our forwards, he seemed to be doing this alone . I felt the three in behind were invisible and not working hard enough and I said as much within five minutes of the kick-off.

The four up top, have got to offer their optimum levels or the Poch pressing system falls apart and that's why I'm much happier seeing Dembele and Lamela in the starting eleven, more so against the top sides.

Agree with you regarding Rose and I would add Kane for the effort too.

There were a few points where Kane was coming deep to win the ball back like Rooney does and I thought to myself why aren't the others doing that

I'm not a fan of Lamella but I did make a comment in the OMT that we could do with him on

I really like Demeble against the better sides as he gives us ball retention and it's so important in these games to actually have the ball to play with

 

[Pirate55]

Season over. Said in January we needed a centre back centre mid and a winger and a striker. Still need those 4. At least today will see the end of townsend in the first team. Wonder if he'll see mason doesn't offer enough, we're so weak in the middle of the park.

I said the same. When will we ever learn.

There are issues ( and weaknesses ) with all our centre halves.

Mason and Benelab just don't offer enough protection to a dodgy back four.

We are far too reliant on Kane and Eriksen. We need additional creativity in midfield and another goalscorer to add to (or when necessary replace) Kane.

With the amount of money we have wasted on Soldado, Paulinho, Capoue and Lamela, just think what the team might look like with better recruits.

Oh well, onwards and upwards ( hopefully !!)