Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Call me controversial, but I don't see a massive difference in overall quality between Poch, AVB, Redknapp, Sherwood etc.
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*** Tottenham Hotspur vs. Burnley F.C. *** OMT
- Thread starter Amor
- Start date
Call me controversial, but I don't see a massive difference in overall quality between Poch, AVB, Redknapp, Sherwood etc.
We pick up roughly the same amount of points under all of them. It's a question of style and personality, which is why I'm delighted as long as we don't have another Redknapp or, GHod forbid, Sherwood in charge.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
What about AVB?
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
Turgid?
No problem with him, but not fussed either way really.
SteveAWOL
Chris Jones
In like-for-like fixtures Pochettino is doing better than Tim... Lies, damned lies and statistics eh
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
In like-for-like fixtures Pochettino is doing better than Tim... Lies, damned lies and statistics eh
This surely a better measure. Comparing a bigger sample on a like for like as above is more accurate surely ?
metalgear
Luka Modric
disagree, avb clearly wanted 1-2 top class players instead on spreading it out on 7 mediocre/speculative ones like we did.
and the same with poch, he wanted someone else but got fazio instead. what about stambouli - its a committee purchase, are you saying that poch's wishes were not respected and he doesn't want stambouli ?
poch himself said that he has to make whatever he has work, and so far its safe to say that despite the talent in this team, we are underperforming.
get with the program - the days of the manager getting the player he wants to make the team work is an outdated notion when the purchase/investment decisions are made by committee.
its more complex now with a need to integrate young players coming through, exploiting moneyball finds etc. the modern spurs manager must take it all in and spit out something better, not just ask for players to play in the way he is comfortable with.
metalgear
Luka Modric
Or AVB...
Likewise I support Poch but I don't feel the need to defend him all the time.
sc25
Banned
Nobody said they want Sherwood back. Straw man. Repeatedly. Regardless of that, we're using a clueless idiot and sunday pub team manager as a yardstick and feeling yummy? If that's what Poch is compared and measured with, he will shine (well, usually anyway). So, Poch is reaping benefits and on honeymoon from a 5 month caretaker. What if he had taken over from a successful and popular manager of longer tenure? Either way, he was to be a massive upgrade. On the pitch. Yet now we are talking the same amount of points, but also of personality, and its delightful? (Current PL top 10 managers personalities anyone?).
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90sSpursBook
Erik Edman
There was some pretty good research in the book 'Soccernomics' about how little impact Managers actually have on results over a long enough period of time (i.e. more than 6 games).
The factor which best determines results and league position is wages. Throughout the last 6 managers (going back to Jol) we have been about 5th - 6th highest wage payers and guess what? We've, on average, finished about 5th or 6th. This is also true of how the final PL table looks; this season the only abnormalities is that Southampton are a few places higher than they have a right to be and QPR are a good few places lower than they ought to be. In fact the years we did finish 4th were years when Liverpool (2010) and Chelsea (2012) underperformed. Last year was an opportunity as Man Utd underperformed but that said Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project performed to their respective 'par' levels and so finished 1-4.
Based on this research until we start paying much higher wages (which I don't neccessarilly believe we should do) we are likely to always finish around 5th or 6th and will record inconsistent results and performances but will win far more than we lose.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
The game now is all about the money, hence the clamour to get champions league because of the money it brings
And Southampton should be up there this season having spent a fortune in the transfer market. Qpr haven't sornt much at all, hence why their struggling
You get what you pay for ultimately as you say has been evidenced
And if a side over achieves their legs pulled from under them by the teams spending more (I won't say richer as its now a fixed gang)
I
indianspur
Guest
weve got a really young and inexperienced side and tbh i think Poch has got more out of them than could have been expected. We will suffer ups and downs, its normal, i dont think Poch or these players deserve to be judged harshly on this first season of a new vision for the club.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
yes actually
we have a defined system now, yeah a lot of the players are not thriving in it but some might in time, also as we move forward and improve the squad we have a whole season of tape to train the recruits, as the system becomes more ingrained we can start plugging people straight in
ringo
Tim Sherwood
Several things concern me:
1. Our style of play. I don't see any clear style of play. Supposedly Poch wants to play a high pressing style, yet that is not evident in all our games, even though we are a long way into the season. It is not clear if the full backs are meant to overlap or not. Sometimes we set up to come inside - sometimes we set up to go wide - but is seems random rather than tactical and linked to our opponent's style.
2. No settled side. Possibly the one thing I hated the most about AVB was him playing players out of positions, and not appearing to have decided who his best XI were. Injuries aside, I'm not convinced Poch knows his best side which he should do by now. Eriksen being shunted all over the pitch is evidence of this. Dembele plays and then he doesn't. Paulinho pops up unexpectedly for 90 minutes. Lamela gets most playing time and then is consistently benched. Fazio vanishes. Stambouli and Capoue feature sporadically. It is a bit of a mess really.
3. Adaptability. To be successful in the Premier not only do you need consistency in team selection (within reason), but you need to be tactically astute and out think your opponent. I haven't seen much evidence of this - if anything Poch has been too rigid and been out thought by opposing managers.
4. Players like to play, and they like to play in what they think are their best positions. If they don't they are likely to leave. I can Eriksen leaving for this reason. Lloris may well leave as well (obviously not for that reason). If they do we will be back to yet another rebuilding season.
5. Over reliance on Kane. Plenty of teams have scored against Burnley. We managed pitifully few chances. Although with our most creative player stuck on one wing or the other it's not that surprising .
1. Our style of play. I don't see any clear style of play. Supposedly Poch wants to play a high pressing style, yet that is not evident in all our games, even though we are a long way into the season. It is not clear if the full backs are meant to overlap or not. Sometimes we set up to come inside - sometimes we set up to go wide - but is seems random rather than tactical and linked to our opponent's style.
2. No settled side. Possibly the one thing I hated the most about AVB was him playing players out of positions, and not appearing to have decided who his best XI were. Injuries aside, I'm not convinced Poch knows his best side which he should do by now. Eriksen being shunted all over the pitch is evidence of this. Dembele plays and then he doesn't. Paulinho pops up unexpectedly for 90 minutes. Lamela gets most playing time and then is consistently benched. Fazio vanishes. Stambouli and Capoue feature sporadically. It is a bit of a mess really.
3. Adaptability. To be successful in the Premier not only do you need consistency in team selection (within reason), but you need to be tactically astute and out think your opponent. I haven't seen much evidence of this - if anything Poch has been too rigid and been out thought by opposing managers.
4. Players like to play, and they like to play in what they think are their best positions. If they don't they are likely to leave. I can Eriksen leaving for this reason. Lloris may well leave as well (obviously not for that reason). If they do we will be back to yet another rebuilding season.
5. Over reliance on Kane. Plenty of teams have scored against Burnley. We managed pitifully few chances. Although with our most creative player stuck on one wing or the other it's not that surprising .
?
I bet they gave them a harder time than we did, we were fecking abysmal, no improvement, no settled side = no progress.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Lot of truth in that, personally I would think that anyone who does judge Poch on what he has done so far is knee jerking.