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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

There should be a thread on class in Random. Such an important topic and I do think Scara is being misunderstood. Class is a reality. And whether we like to admit it or not there are accurate generalisations one can make based on people's class.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
I think the end of the season is the very minimum. Even then, we'd have to take into account that when he took over we were pretty close to our best points haul ever.

The end of next season will give us some kind of idea where we're going (as long as important players don't leave this summer).

That's all with the caveat that's always there for all players and managers, that if there's a better option available it should be taken.
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I agree that it is too early to judge Sherwood's management of the first team. I also agree that at the end of this season and through next year will be a better time to form a more rounded opinion on his abilities.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

LutonSpurs said:
There should be a thread on class in Random. Such an important topic and I do think Scara is being misunderstood. Class is a reality. And whether we like to admit it or not there are accurate generalisations one can make based on people's class.
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You should start one
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do people realise yet that football managers are vastly overrated? Sherwood is doing a good job of proving this.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
It will take quite a while before we can separate the influence of previous managers. It will also take a far larger sample size to make a fair judgement. It's simply far too soon to do that.
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Probably true.
But I believe that if he'd not won any of our PL games then such a...moderating comment would not be so forthcoming.
I think that a significant proportion of our fans are unhappy that the evidence so far before them does not match their beliefs about TS and so, rather than be willing to reassess their beliefs are just waiting for things to change. Until then, very minor, chippy and tangential digs get made.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

JerusalemMan said:
Probably true.
But I believe that if he'd not won any of our PL games then such a...moderating comment would not be so forthcoming.
I think that a significant proportion of our fans are unhappy that the evidence so far before them does not match their beliefs about TS and so, rather than be willing to reassess their beliefs are just waiting for things to change. Until then, very minor, chippy and tangential digs get made.
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I'm fully behind Sherwood but that doesn't change the fact that small sample sizes of data are notoriously unreliable. The more games that we play under him the easier it will be to draw conclusions and the better chance there is that those conclusions are reliable. Unfortunately, in the long term many people will still see what they want to see and ignore evidence that contradicts this.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Rossi22 said:
Do people realise yet that football managers are vastly overrated? Sherwood is doing a good job of proving this.
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Id say he's proving entirely the opposite - we've changed managers mid season and the football played under each is very different. How can the managers position be over rated if it can bring about such change??
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Gutter Boy said:
British players are currently the worse standard they've been - ever. Even the England national team is championship standard. Fantastic idea.

Nile Ranger, Tom Ince, Connor Wickham. Happy times...
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Shaw, Ward-Prowse, Hughes
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

billyiddo said:
Id say he's proving entirely the opposite - we've changed managers mid season and the football played under each is very different. How can the managers position be over rated if it can bring about such change??
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That a complete novice is outperforming a manager with AVB's "credentials". I just don't buy into any of these manager debates/comparisons, how exactly do you compare one manager with another and rank them? It's like trying to rank F1 drivers. I would have as much faith in a manager from League 2 doing a good job here as I would any of Gutter Boy's mates.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But do you agree that the change in managers has brought about a noticeable change in the football?


i agree though that there are likely to be several managers/coaches in the lower leagues that are more than capable of managing in the top flight but will never get the chance. It's a shame because if you look in countries like Italy and Spain they don't appear to have the same reservations.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wasn't there some study which showed that a manager's impact was something like 15% in terms of effect on performance. Important but not critical.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

billyiddo said:
But do you agree that the change in managers has brought about a noticeable change in the football?
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Yes, a massive change but what I'm saying is that people just rate managers based on appearance and perception, I don't think you can compare managers like you do players. I think the range in ability between players is far greater than the ranger in "ability" of managers, a lot of the time it's just about being in the right place at the right time and getting the breaks. Frank de Boer for example, one of GB's idols, why is he a great manager? Because he has the biggest club in Holland winning the league title in Holland? When he goes, Ajax will promote the next guy in line or hire from a smaller club whose coach is doing well and then he'll be elevated to being a big name in a couple of years, I just think football managers are overrated. Sherwood is proving that, he's not a big name, he has no experience coaching a professional team but he's getting a whole lot more out of the same set of players that our previously young "decorated" manager couldn't achieve. Unless Sherwood completely bombs the rest of the season then I'd like us to keep him, I don't care for big names who'll cost an unnecessary amount in compensation, I just see Sherwood as a good fit for the club.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lost Mango said:
Wasn't there some study which showed that a manager's impact was something like 15% in terms of effect on performance. Important but not critical.
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how would you even quantify such a thing?

let's take that as gospel though - an extra 15% would have seen us in the CL 5 times out of the last six season rather than the once. rather critical if you ask me
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lost Mango said:
Wasn't there some study which showed that a manager's impact was something like 15% in terms of effect on performance. Important but not critical.
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Or you could argue that most matches are won or lost by the smallest of margins. One or two incidents in 90mins is often enough to change the outcome. In these cases the 15% (rather random number but lets roll with it) value add that the manager brings can easily be the difference.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Rossi22 said:
Yes, a massive change but what I'm saying is that people just rate managers based on appearance and perception, I don't think you can compare managers like you do players. I think the range in ability between players is far greater than the ranger in "ability" of managers, a lot of the time it's just about being in the right place at the right time and getting the breaks. Frank de Boer for example, one of GB's idols, why is he a great manager? Because he has the biggest club in Holland winning the league title in Holland? When he goes, Ajax will promote the next guy in line or hire from a smaller club whose coach is doing well and then he'll be elevated to being a big name in a couple of years, I just think football managers are overrated. Sherwood is proving that, he's not a big name, he has no experience coaching a professional team but he's getting a whole lot more out of the same set of players that our previously young "decorated" manager couldn't achieve. Unless Sherwood completely bombs the rest of the season then I'd like us to keep him, I don't care for big names who'll cost an unnecessary amount in compensation, I just see Sherwood as a good fit for the club.
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At the top level but he coached the U21s to second in the country last season.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lost Mango said:
Wasn't there some study which showed that a manager's impact was something like 15% in terms of effect on performance. Important but not critical.
Click to expand...

How on Earth would you go about measuring that? If you had 20 teams with 20 players each all of the exact same ability with all of the same tools available and under the same conditions, then you could start to compare them as it'd purely be down to coaching/tactical/motivational ability. Football isn't a level playing field though so I don't see how anyone can simply say manager A is better than manager B, maybe manager A has just had the right breaks, maybe manager B is better suited to a different club than manager A but hasn't been given that opportunity yet.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lost Mango said:
Wasn't there some study which showed that a manager's impact was something like 15% in terms of effect on performance. Important but not critical.
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In terms of Premier League points won so far this season, Spurs have gone from 56.25% of available points won under AVB to 88.89% of available points won under Sherwood.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but I think that's slightly more than a 15% impact...

Tottenham Hotspur Manager's Records & Statistics 1898-2014
 
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