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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Bedfordspurs said:
Using the results as evidence and crude quick look at out line ups
We haven’t lost a league game playing a more attacking 4-3-3
The games we have lost have all been when playing Bentina in midfield
They are also there when we have recorded our league record lows for XG
That’s something that seems worryingly obvious but clearly isn’t
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Football fans imv are a lot quicker to conclude that something isn't working than managers are - throughout all of ours, at one point or another we as fans have said 'x y or z isn't working why doesn't he change it' while they carry on seemingly doing the same thing time after time (i mean we have just come off the back of 2 years watching the same flaws being exposed week in week out for example LOL) my conclusion there is simply that the men who have made a living from the game think that more than a handful of games is required to prove something is not working.

Frank like every manager that came before him will either find a way to have us picking up enough points to keep us competitive or he won't - if he doesn't he'll be rightly moved on.
 
billyiddo said:
Football fans imv are a lot quicker to conclude that something isn't working than managers are - throughout all of ours, at one point or another we as fans have said 'x y or z isn't working why doesn't he change it' while they carry on seemingly doing the same thing time after time (i mean we have just come off the back of 2 years watching the same flaws being exposed week in week out for example LOL) my conclusion there is simply that the men who have made a living from the game think that more than a handful of games is required to prove something is not working.

Frank like every manager that came before him will either find a way to have us picking up enough points to keep us competitive or he won't - if he doesn't he'll be rightly moved on.
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Agreed
But also when data shows something as a trend … even with a small sample size, I’d guess a coach who is obsessive on data would see it
I’ll also add that as football is driven by nepotism it does stop anyone new getting into the sport to push out these people who have had careers for years, but it doesn’t make them necessarily any more successful or better just more experienced.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yep
It’s a balance needed
I don’t know how you do it
Redknapp did it
Poch did it
I think it’s works better with younger players but that’s an assumption
I do think whatever approach you take you need to convince people
Ange said this works, here’s the trophies
Conte said this works… here’s the trophies (even bigger ones)
Poch couldn’t show them that but he clearly did something
Frank can’t really show them anything either so I don’t know how he convinces them
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I think it’s an intangible quality of leadership. You understand the people, you understand what will inspire them, you understand the context of your environment, and then you communicate something effectively that gets people to fall in behind you. Frank started slow at Brentford so maybe it will all work out here. My worry is that some of the performances seem so utterly disconnected that there seems to be a greater issue somewhere.

I think Poch was able to inspire a vision as well as be clever with the dynamics. He created new leaders, made those new leaders better, and everyone else followed.

Ange’s whole thing was relentless belief in himself. I think not losing the dressing room despite the run in the league was an achievement, and proven out that he was able to get the players to buy into something. To be able to say hey, no one else would dare try this, but we’re going to. And I believe it can work. He never wavered. And the players backed him.

There may well be a cohort of players in the squad that are desperate for some pragmatism, to be more streetwise in games, to catch the opposition out and make them look naive. But that’s where I’m as yet unsure with Frank - my worry is that the squad just doesn’t instinctively believe in his vision as much. And it’s nobodies fault as such, but something is breaking down.
 
parj said:
I agree with this. I think our midfield is being totally misused. It's low energy, high defensive with Palinha and Bentancur, but they are terrible at transitioning into attack.

We have Bergvall and Sarr sitting on the bench who provide energy. Sarr is a pressing machine,and Bergvall can transition the ball quickly.

We need a midfield pair of Palinha or Bentancur, and Bergvall or Sarr. Personally,I would prefer Bergvall and Sarr so that we can rush the opposition and force the ball longer into Romero and VDV, but they can also both move the ball quickly and allow us to transition into attack better than Bentancur and Palinha.
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You haven't even mentioned Gray, would be nice to see if he can spread his wings in CM too....
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think it’s an intangible quality of leadership. You understand the people, you understand what will inspire them, you understand the context of your environment, and then you communicate something effectively that gets people to fall in behind you. Frank started slow at Brentford so maybe it will all work out here. My worry is that some of the performances seem so utterly disconnected that there seems to be a greater issue somewhere.

I think Poch was able to inspire a vision as well as be clever with the dynamics. He created new leaders, made those new leaders better, and everyone else followed.

Ange’s whole thing was relentless belief in himself. I think not losing the dressing room despite the run in the league was an achievement, and proven out that he was able to get the players to buy into something. To be able to say hey, no one else would dare try this, but we’re going to. And I believe it can work. He never wavered. And the players backed him.

There may well be a cohort of players in the squad that are desperate for some pragmatism, to be more streetwise in games, to catch the opposition out and make them look naive. But that’s where I’m as yet unsure with Frank - my worry is that the squad just doesn’t instinctively believe in his vision as much. And it’s nobodies fault as such, but something is breaking down.
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I work for a few board directors who I just cannot understand how they got there
Their leadership skills are genuinely woeful but they do put the hours in
Leadership is a skill in its own right
Frank has studied some psychology. In the interview he did with Michael Carrick he frequently Flipped the question back as to what did you do… I don’t know what that means or reflects on him but it stood out to me
It was almost him interviewing Carrick
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I’m sorry but I just don’t agree that we don’t have players in the squad that couldn’t play a more progressive style of football. Many people have said - a different manager could play one of Palinha or Bentancur, partnered with any 2 out of Bergval, Sarr, Gray, Xavi and we’d be perfectly capable of playing through the middle.

The reason our players don’t look like they are capable of passing forwards is because they’re being asked not to. Xavi looks bad because he gets the ball in terrible positions and has no options when he looks to pass.

This idea of it being a delicate balancing act is just nonsense - what we are seeing is what Frank wants. Again, I’m not even saying it’s unworkable in theory. But we’re not seeing some finely balanced output where a few tweaks here and there will see it firing. We are seeing absolutely dreadful attacking output, league worst attacking output in more than one game. And it’s not clicking. Something is disconnected.

People are talking like we have Michael Brown and Benjamin Stambouli in midfield and so this is just the way it has to be. I say that’s rubbish. We have a squad full of top internationals.
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I think you misunderstand my view. It's not that I think we are incapable of playing a progressive game, that's obviously not the case. We just saw the previous manager do it. My view is we can't do that whilst playing in a balanced setup. That is something we haven't seen in years, not since Poch. It's either been all defensive all out suicidal attack.

So yes if we play a mid block defensive line, this same squad will struggle to build play from the back because it's lacking in players capable of playing passing football in that area. None of our CMs are passers, not one of them. I remember debating this earlier this season and pointing out why having Romero our CB be our best user of the ball was a problem. Not because I don't want a ball playing CB but because that CB should be a bonus, in addition to the passing quality from the heart of the team ie. the midfield. Now some will say the likes of Bergvall can drive with the ball and sure he can, but he will also lose the ball repeatedly in dangerous spaces as he often does. Is that worth the risk? Maybe for some, but I think in the short as those losses of the ball lead to chances and goals conceded that view would change quite sharply. You don't build successful football from deep via driving, you do it via passing rotation. There's a model to follow when setting up as a progressive possession team, it involves deeper ball players that we do not posses currently.

For me it's the same reason Ange played his line so high, because he knew that to get the short triangular interchange of passes that he wanted he needed the various players to be much closer to each other. That worked in an attacking sense, massively overachieving goal wise re the player quality but with lots of very obvious downsides.

Now we have a coach who has a more sensible line position but who is also struggling with the same issue we've had for years, how to link the defence to the midfield and through to the attack. This isn't a new problem, it seems to me so many have just forgotten because of the period under Ange and even with him we suffered the same issues. I don't see that as a coaching deficiency, that is very clearly a player attributes issue.

So ultimately sure I think Frank could be more ambitious, I wouldn't have made many of the choices he has ie Xavi on the left, Bentancur and Palhinha, but I can't lie and say I think the decisions I would have made in terms of player positions or selections with the available squad would have fared any better. They would be more attacking for sure but also would leave us more exposed, I don't believe we are capable of playing a dominant game as it stands I just don't have that belief that you have.
 
I like these quotes from Frank and does backup what the likes of @Grays_1890 and @Mikey10 allude to. We all know this, but it needs to transmit onto the pitch and not just be words. However I like how he's talking and backing himself:

"One thing I'm 1000% sure of is I know how to build a team, I know how to build a club," Frank said.
"We will do that. Along the way we will learn and the big thing is how we learn from the bad spells because that's when we can see when we go 1-0 down, how do we react as a team.

The best teams they continually just move on. They still run hard, they still do the same things. There's no doubts in that.
"First four months, I've learned a lot about the team. I've learned a lot about the individual players. All that learning needs to materialise to how we find the right formula with the right players on the pitch and also with some players coming back.

And then we play every third day. That's the big challenge but that's what I embrace."
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I work for a few board directors who I just cannot understand how they got there
Their leadership skills are genuinely woeful but they do put the hours in
Leadership is a skill in its own right
Frank has studied some psychology. In the interview he did with Michael Carrick he frequently Flipped the question back as to what did you do… I don’t know what that means or reflects on him but it stood out to me
It was almost him interviewing Carrick
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I think Frank is very likely an interesting person, great to talk to, and as it relates to our squad I’m certain that our players want to do right by him. He is a good guy, no question. I wouldn’t be surprised if being a ‘good person’ was a key part of the criteria that the board interviewed against.

The question for me comes to whether what he wants is natural for the players, whether they instinctively feel like they can do it well, when the pressure is on. If his skills can inspire that level of performance, I’d be delighted. I just don’t know.
 
Bishop said:
I think you misunderstand my view. It's not that I think we are incapable of playing a progressive game, that's obviously not the case. We just saw the previous manager do it. My view is we can't do that whilst playing in a balanced setup. That is something we haven't seen in years, not since Poch. It's either been all defensive all out suicidal attack.

So yes if we play a mid block defensive line, this same squad will struggle to build play from the back because it's lacking in players capable of playing passing football in that area. None of our CMs are passers, not one of them. I remember debating this earlier this season and pointing out why having Romero our CB be our best user of the ball was a problem. Not because I don't want a ball playing CB but because that CB should be a bonus, in addition to the passing quality from the heart of the team ie. the midfield. Now some will say the likes of Bergvall can drive with the ball and sure he can, but he will also lose the ball repeatedly in dangerous spaces as he often does. Is that worth the risk? Maybe for some, but I think in the short as those losses of the ball lead to chances and goals conceded that view would change quite sharply. You don't build successful football from deep via driving, you do it via passing rotation. There's a model to follow when setting up as a progressive possession team, it involves deeper ball players that we do not posses currently.

For me it's the same reason Ange played his line so high, because he knew that to get the short triangular interchange of passes that he wanted he needed the various players to be much closer to each other. That worked in an attacking sense, massively overachieving goal wise re the player quality but with lots of very obvious downsides.

Now we have a coach who has a more sensible line position but who is also struggling with the same issue we've had for years, how to link the defence to the midfield and through to the attack. This isn't a new problem, it seems to me so many have just forgotten because of the period under Ange and even with him we suffered the same issues. I don't see that as a coaching deficiency, that is very clearly a player attributes issue.

So ultimately sure I think Frank could be more ambitious, I wouldn't have made many of the choices he has ie Xavi on the left, Bentancur and Palhinha, but I can't lie and say I think the decisions I would have made in terms of player positions or selections with the available squad would have fared any better. They would be more attacking for sure but also would leave us more exposed, I don't believe we are capable of playing a dominant game as it stands I just don't have that belief that you have.
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I see what you’re saying. I just think we could have exactly the same squad but with Silva or Iraola in charge and we’d see a different style of football that would have been as effective if not more so. It would be balanced and we would have seen more attacking output so far. I’m sure of it.

I’m not saying I want them rather than Frank. Just that I believe if those managers had our squad, that’s what we’ll see.

Frank talks about wanting to ‘build a club’. He’s trying to imprint his cultural ideas on our squad. I think there’s an open question on whether the squad will ultimately fully buy in. It would be easier taking over a club that hadn’t just won something, where the players were really bought in. Because he’d be building from a low base. But the reality is at least in a cultural sense, he wasn’t building from a low base. He’s unwinding ideas that a lot of the players clearly liked.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Do wonder how his pre match comments about us having 10/12 great games, ok 30 games and the rest below that
And we charge the mega prices for fans on that basis
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Does make some odd comments.
As for the game at the weekend when I saw the team I thought we would line up 3-5-2 shifting to 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 when defending.
Something like:

--------------------------Vicario-------------------------
----------Danso-----Romero----Van De Ven--
Spence----------------------------------------Udogie
------------Bentancur------Palhinha--------------
-------------------------Odobert------------------------
-----------------Kudus------Richarlison-----------

Thought we might have soaked up pressure then countered with the wb's and Odobert getting forward and Kudus running in behind Richarlison. Thought it might have worked but what I witnessed wasn't what I imagined, it was woeful.
Considering we're supposed to be getting some defensive solidity in the side before improving the attacking side later in his tenure what I've witnessed quite a few times already is that we're almost as bad as under Ange. A few games already including Sunday where if we'd been beaten 5 or 6 nil we could have no complaints.
Early days of course but not overly impressed with what I've seen. He's a nice bloke and good coach so hopefully he'll be given time and the right players to operate his system and we'll come good.
 
thfcsteff said:
He got it wrong. That's clear. And I want to agree...but there was a moment which means I can't. After Richy's goal, there was -for a good 7-8 minutes- a palpable sense of anxiety around that place. Arteta looked edgy/picking a fight. We had more of the ball in that time than we'd had before or would have after. That was a moment to shift gears and take the game to them, perhaps make even more adventurous subs. Yet we continued at the same general pace, with no seeming 'plan B' in terms of how to take advantage of a potential moment. In fact, it seemed like that whole phase of time passed him by!
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I didn't see the second half....what you describe is very sad to read i must say :(
 
Just read his pre match comments transcript. It definitely was telling that his diagnosis was about the duels.

I really like his transparency. I really like that he has a clear idea of what he wants. But this, combined with the pass maps, his selections, the general game management…this is what he wants. The idea isn’t going to change, but hopefully the execution of it will. I hope that the players are bought in.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Just read his pre match comments transcript. It definitely was telling that his diagnosis was about the duels.

I really like his transparency. I really like that he has a clear idea of what he wants. But this, combined with the pass maps, his selections, the general game management…this is what he wants. The idea isn’t going to change, but hopefully the execution of it will. I hope that the players are bought in.
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He wants aggression and fight
He also wants set plays
He also wants physicality
That’s his old teams set up and strength
I don’t think it’s debatable
But would mean we have to change a lot of players and also accept that we will be quite one dimensional
Can work if we have the right players but I’d say it will need about 8 new ones
 
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