Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[glasgowspur]

I dunno, I think it was desperation defending. It wasn't anything particularly structured we just sat back with 10 men and threw ourselves at every ball and that was against relatively low quality opposition.

I think Frank wants a solid base first and a possessional structure in the middle after but is failing to achieve this. Whether that's due to poor coaching as some feel or lacking the player types and quality (how I feel) who knows. I don't think Frank's actual intention is brick out games low blocking every team we play and hoping for a single deflected goal to be the winner. I mean that's not even a strategy.

It's to early Imv to judge the coaching, although it is fair to critique the tactics, just as I never thought ange was the saviour after the first 10 games I don't think Frank is a dud at this point.

 

[Finney Is Back]

@thfcsteff - A midfield 2 of Bergvall and Palinha (away to one of the best sides in Europe no less) gets totally overrun.

IMV people are getting yesterday wrong, we didn't play 532 it was 523 - Palinha + Bentancur in the middle with two AMs/WFs in front with Richarlison.

We needed an additional CM to make up for the shortfall of creativity and give us a fighting chance in terms numbers, 2 of Sarr Bergvall Bentancur alongside Palinha, instead of a third CB would have been a better option IMV, 523 vs 4231 with our options and the result/performance doesn’t change.

It looked more like a 5-4-1 to me.... Our wingers were penned back for pretty much the whole game.

 

[SpurMeUp]

its an impasse

Yes we need more through the middle

 

[DubSpur]

Player composition has always been the biggest stumbling block, that was the case under Ange, as it was Conte as it will be with Frank. I don't know why we as a fan base go round and round in circles just refusing to see what's right in front of our eyes. It's fudging boring.

Sack Frank and bring in Glasner and the same boring conversations will happen because unless we actually buy a higher standard of player who suits the game plan of whichever coach we currently have,history will just repeat and repeat and repeat.

Player quality is the single biggest decider of a teams quality, not the coach, not the stadium, not the training facilities and not the flipping team bus. The players!

Have repeated this a few times, one of Franks biggest selling points is that he is flexible and will use adjust the system to the players he has and the opponents. Why does he now need players that suit his game plan and not adjust his game plan?

Yes, the player quality needs to improve, but so does the quality that Frank is showing as it does have a big impact on the team quality.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Have repeated this a few times, one of Franks biggest selling points is that he is flexible and will use adjust the system to the players he has and the opponents. Why does he now need players that suit his game plan and not adjust his game plan?

Yes, the player quality needs to improve, but so does the quality that Frank is showing as it does have a big impact on the team quality.

It’s the exact reason I wanted him
I want a manager who deals with the hand he has

 

[Bishop]

Have repeated this a few times, one of Franks biggest selling points is that he is flexible and will use adjust the system to the players he has and the opponents. Why does he now need players that suit his game plan and not adjust his game plan?

Yes, the player quality needs to improve, but so does the quality that Frank is showing as it does have a big impact on the team quality.

Thats what you think his biggest selling point is, that was never something I said. I don't believe in the Messiah coach concept.

I don't rate the players, I don't think it matters who the manger is the player failings will always cause problems. This isn't some new stance related to Thomas Frank, I said the exact thing under Ange and the exact same thing under Conte and even Mourinho to an extent.

I don't really care about the whole attractive/ not attractive thing under Frank at the moment because we are at the start of his reign and because if we were playing scintillating football and still losing I can't say that I would be any happier. I want winning football, preferably played progressively and attractively but the wining part is the import part for me not the style it's played in.

 

[Bishop]

It’s the exact reason I wanted him
I want a manager who deals with the hand he has

Who says Frank isn't. What you really mean is you want a coach who plays the hand delt to him and then it with attractive successful football. That might not just be possible right now.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Who says Frank isn't. What you really mean is you want a coach who plays the hand delt to him and then it with attractive successful football. That might not just be possible right now.

No
I mean manager who maximises what he has rather than minimises it
Ugly football is fine with results

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Just crazy to me that people will genuinely say our squad isn’t good enough to play better than 0.05xG attacking output. Like seriously…what are we talking about here? We are not a League 2 side going up against the best in the country. We are at very minimum a top 8 side and the idea of Frank was absolutely that he would work with what he has.

If we accept that the players aren’t actually that good, then we have to accept that the Europa win was one of the biggest coaching achievements in the modern game. Because I heard a lot since it happened that we were the favourites, we barely beat anyone, and it’s nice but not that big a deal.

So, was 17th our level? Even with every bit of context applied? Or were we always clear favourites for Europe’s secondary competition? Are the players now so bad that they are incapable of playing in the safest possible way in possession, and only capable of an output that would require 20 games to score an expected goal?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Just crazy to me that people will genuinely say our squad isn’t good enough to play better than 0.05xG attacking output. Like seriously…what are we talking about here? We are not a League 2 side going up against the best in the country. We are at very minimum a top 8 side and the idea of Frank was absolutely that he would work with what he has.

If we accept that the players aren’t actually that good, then we have to accept that the Europa win was one of the biggest coaching achievements in the modern game. Because I heard a lot since it happened that we were the favourites, we barely beat anyone, and it’s nice but not that big a deal.

So, was 17th our level? Even with every bit of context applied? Or were we always clear favourites for Europe’s secondary competition? Are the players now so bad that they are incapable of playing in the safest possible way in possession, and only capable of an output that would require 20 games to score an expected goal?

It’s worse than the bottom sides in the division
We have set new low bars

 

[billyiddo]

Just crazy to me that people will genuinely say our squad isn’t good enough to play better than 0.05xG attacking output

Haven't seen anyone say that

 

[DubSpur]

Thats what you think his biggest selling point is, that was never something I said. I don't believe in the Messiah coach concept.

I don't rate the players, I don't think it matters who the manger is the player failings will always cause problems. This isn't some new stance related to Thomas Frank, I said the exact thing under Ange and the exact same thing under Conte and even Mourinho to an extent.

I don't really care about the whole attractive/ not attractive thing under Frank at the moment because we are at the start of his reign and because if we were playing scintillating football and still losing I can't say that I would be any happier. I want winning football, preferably played progressively and attractively but the wining part is the import part for me not the style it's played in.

Not saying that it came from you but it was one of the biggest points that was brought up in general by pundits and a lot of those putting forward that he's a good choice.

It still comes back to Frank is not getting the best out of the players whether the football is thrilling or horrible. The players aren't world beaters but he currently has them looking like a Championship team that is afraid to go forward and they are better than that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not saying that it came from you but it was one of the biggest points that was brought up in general by pundits and a lot of those putting forward that he's a good choice.

It still comes back to Frank is not getting the best out of the players whether the football is thrilling or horrible. The players aren't world beaters but he currently has them looking like a Championship team that is afraid to go forward and they are better than that.

Certainly feels like that
I’d happily criticise the attackers for missing chances but to do that … e would have to create them first
And I have just seen that Richy has 5 goals from an xG of wiring half that. That’s elite and we all know he ain’t elite as a CF but does show how we are scoring goals

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Haven't seen anyone say that

There’s plenty of people saying he’s only playing this way because that’s all the squad is capable of. This is the result of that.

I’m sure people actually think that (as I have also said) the idea is especially in the big games to look much more like the Super Cup than the Arsenal game. But that’s a different thing. Plenty of top teams with good players can be set out to counter. If we were doing that, it would be fine.

People are saying the squad isn’t good enough to do more than what they’re doing. But the output of that is 0.05xG. Which is why I go back to what I’ve always said, this isn’t a player quality issue. Something isn’t working, quite fundamentally. And therefore I think it’s absolutely right to say they are capable of being set up in a different way, a more proactive one, and the results / output at least would be better. Two of our lowest XG games ever within a few weeks of each other. Even if we had Norwich’s squad or whatever I’d still say the players were capable of more. It isn’t the players. Something is disconnected.

 

[billyiddo]

There’s plenty of people saying he’s only playing this way because that’s all the squad is capable of. This is the result of that.

I’m sure people actually think that (as I have also said) the idea is especially in the big games to look much more like the Super Cup than the Arsenal game. But that’s a different thing. Plenty of top teams with good players can be set out to counter. If we were doing that, it would be fine.

People are saying the squad isn’t good enough to do more than what they’re doing. But the output of that is 0.05xG. Which is why I go back to what I’ve always said, this isn’t a player quality issue. Something isn’t working, quite fundamentally. And therefore I think it’s absolutely right to say they are capable of being set up in a different way, a more proactive one, and the results / output at least would be better. Two of our lowest XG games ever within a few weeks of each other. Even if we had Norwich’s squad or whatever I’d still say the players were capable of more. It isn’t the players. Something is disconnected.

People are saying, quite rightly, that the squad is bereft of creativity in midfield and quality in attack and that it is a big factor in our blunt play atm - the way you're framing that view is quite poor.

A more attacking manager may get more out of the players here, they may not - Frank is/maybe/possibly being over cautious in his approach and compounding the squad defeciencies - but it's a balancing act and more importantly he's been here 6 bloody months and needs to be allowed the time/space to figure it out.

 

[lurker of old]

I can't get to Saturday's game but based on what I've seen this season, we need a good win against Fulham or the atmosphere will be horrible and pressure on Frank will really start mounting...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

When we haven’t played the deadly duo in midfield we have been better with the ball and haven’t lost anything without it
The stats show it
The eye eye test shows it too
Every leave game we have lost has been with those 2 playing together in midfield.
We have won some games too with that pair of course
But 2 play 2 DMs and lose as bad as we have and to not play them and actually not lose (subject to opposition) says something is being missed or were trying to play a way long term with the deadly duo… only the coaches will know
But as a data driven coaching team I’m amazed that isn’t standing out

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

People are saying, quite rightly, that the squad is bereft of creativity in midfield and quality in attack and that it is a big factor in our blunt play atm - the way you're framing that is quite poor.

A more attacking manager may get more out of the players here, they may not - Frank is/maybe/possibly being over cautious in his approach and compounding the squad defeciencies - but it's a balancing act and more importantly he's been here 6 bloody months and needs to be allowed the time/space to figure it out.

I’m sorry but I just don’t agree that we don’t have players in the squad that couldn’t play a more progressive style of football. Many people have said - a different manager could play one of Palinha or Bentancur, partnered with any 2 out of Bergval, Sarr, Gray, Xavi and we’d be perfectly capable of playing through the middle.

The reason our players don’t look like they are capable of passing forwards is because they’re being asked not to. Xavi looks bad because he gets the ball in terrible positions and has no options when he looks to pass.

This idea of it being a delicate balancing act is just nonsense - what we are seeing is what Frank wants. Again, I’m not even saying it’s unworkable in theory. But we’re not seeing some finely balanced output where a few tweaks here and there will see it firing. We are seeing absolutely dreadful attacking output, league worst attacking output in more than one game. And it’s not clicking. Something is disconnected.

People are talking like we have Michael Brown and Benjamin Stambouli in midfield and so this is just the way it has to be. I say that’s rubbish. We have a squad full of top internationals.

 

[harr1984]

I can't get to Saturday's game but based on what I've seen this season, we need a good win against Fulham or the atmosphere will be horrible and pressure on Frank will really start mounting...

Sad but true. Pretty sure most/everyone on here who has been critical of the football still wants and expects Frank to be given proper time to get it right.

But from what I've seen so those at the stadium don't exert the same level of patience in general and sadly will likely be under pressure if it continues. Hopefully can see some green shoots soon...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I’m sorry but I just don’t agree that we don’t have players in the squad that couldn’t play a more progressive style of football. Many people have said - a different manager could play one of Palinha or Bentancur, partnered with any 2 out of Bergval, Sarr, Gray, Xavi and we’d be perfectly capable of playing through the middle.

The reason our players don’t look like they are capable of passing forwards is because they’re being asked not to. Xavi looks bad because he gets the ball in terrible positions and has no options when he looks to pass.

This idea of it being a delicate balancing act is just nonsense - what we are seeing is what Frank wants. Again, I’m not even saying it’s unworkable in theory. But we’re not seeing some finely balanced output where a few tweaks here and there will see it firing. We are seeing absolutely dreadful attacking output, league worst attacking output in more than one game. And it’s not clicking. Something is disconnected.

People are talking like we have Michael Brown and Benjamin Stambouli in midfield and so this is just the way it has to be. I say that’s rubbish. We have a squad full of top internationals.

Using the results as evidence and crude quick look at out line ups
We haven’t lost a league game playing a more attacking 4-3-3
The games we have lost have all been when playing Bentina in midfield
They are also there when we have recorded our league record lows for XG
That’s something that seems worryingly obvious but clearly isn’t