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The Y word

elltrev said:
And sorry I didn't mean egocentric in that respect - I meant 'centred in or arising from a person's own individual existence or perspective' (taken from Google definition) And I didn't mean it as an attack -
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I certainly didnt take it that way, no need to apologise. I think it gets complex, and enters into territory where people get rather sensitive, so I think Id be happy to leave things as they stand.
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EGOCENTRIC ARMY!
 
elltrev said:
Looks from your photo like you’re a fellow white man? (Apologies if I’m mistaken). See my post above - I just don’t think we can fully empathise with the power that certain words have. E.g. if you have family members who were gassed to death in the holocaust simply for being Jewish, and not long after you were called ‘filthy yid’ or something on multiple occasions in your everyday life, I can understand why that word could be just as psychologically and emotionally damaging as any action. And I think that’s what the term ‘offensive’ really means - psychologically and emotionally damaging.

I think the term ‘snowflake’ is also thrown around too easily, especially by people like you and me who haven’t really been persecuted for their identity (apologies again if I’ve made incorrect assumptions about your identity based on your photo).
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No you haven’t Made false assumptions.

And you make very good points.

I like to think I have good empathy, but your completely right, because I haven’t had to live through that kind of persecution, it is naturally hard for me to truly grasp where they are coming from.

I strongly believe that an offensive term should be used as armour by the person who it is aimed against as it just invites more regular use of the word if the caster of the spell can see the damage they inflict...

The haters get the kick they crave.

The snowflake term is something perhaps born out of my frustration, that I feel there are those dreaming of a utopian society where people never say anything to hurt another’s feelings, throughout the ages and into the future this will never ever happen, so it’s up to the individual to define and respond positively to those too dumb to move beyond old wounds and prejudice who will seek to hurt from words...

I dunno mate, I guess it always needs to start with the kids, and educating them though, yet both the n and y word are tricky indeed.

p.s please stop looking at my picture and ogling over my wife :)
 
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Nigeyman said:
No you haven’t Made false assumptions.

And you make very good points.

I like to think I have good empathy, but your completely right, because I haven’t had to live through that kind of persecution, it is naturally hard for me to truly grasp where they are coming from.

I strongly believe that an offensive term should be used as armour by the person who it is aimed against as it just invites more regular use of the word if the caster of the spell can see the damage they inflict...

The haters get the kick they crave.

The snowflake term is something perhaps born out of my frustration, that I feel there are those dreaming of a utopian society where people never say anything to hurt another’s feelings, throughout the ages and into the future this will never ever happen, so it’s up to the individual to define and respond positively to those too dumb to move beyond old wounds and prejudice who will seek to hurt from words...

I dunno mate, I guess it always needs to start with the kids, and educating them though, yet both the n and y word are tricky indeed.

p.s please stop looking at my picture and ogling over my wife :)
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Haha well if you are gonna post a picture of her... :D

I agree that ideally an offensive term should be used as armour, or at least shouldn't be taken to heart (for the benefit of the person that the offensive term is aimed at). I just think that's probably not as easy as a lot of people think, especially people like you and me who've never really been subjected to those kinds of identity-related offensive terms (and all of the offensive actions that have gone hand in hand with them, perhaps in their personal experience as well as historically).

I do get the frustration though, especially when some people do go overboard (in my opinion) in what they take offence to. And especially when people take offence on behalf of other people... their righteousness is just an irritating trait I think!
 
Jordinho said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1221145054267478016
https://twitter.com/x/status/1221141259382861824
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Pressure? From whom or where? Just a load of self-serving claptrap from the Goonergraph.

That said, I am a lifelong Spurs devotee and I don't really care for the use of Yid in chants.

I'd be OK with it as a strong, suitable response if rival fans were chanting or singing something antagonizing over religious lines. Use it as a defence mechanism or shield. That's absolutely fine.

But use it without provocation and I take a different view. What fans from other clubs want to have religious chanting taking place at their grounds? Especially if they've said or done nothing to provoke it. It becomes a case of us imposing a religious viewpoint when none was sought or justified.

Raised amidst the sectarian divides of Belfast and Glasgow - as a Presbyterian (lapsed), now married to a French-Canadian Catholic (equally lapsed) - I just cannot stomach religiously-orientated chants or songs. It has nothing to do with sport. Can you imagine Rangers fans chanting 'Prod Army' without suffering terrible consequences? ( I know, they've said worse)

I don't see how Spurs make themselves a bigger, better supported club with this sort of very limited approach to supporting the club. I was in a bar in Toronto watching Spurs with a diverse group of fans and this big geezer sees us go close to scoring and starts belting out "YidArmy, YidArmy, YidArmy."

Not one fellow Spurs fan joined in. People just looked at him like he was nuts. That's how the rest of the world views this. And the game has long gone global in its appeal and audience.
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Pressure? From whom or where? Just a load of self-serving claptrap from the Goonergraph.

That said, I am a lifelong Spurs devotee and I don't really care for the use of Yid in chants.

I'd be OK with it as a strong, suitable response if rival fans were chanting or singing something antagonizing over religious lines. Use it as a defence mechanism or shield. That's absolutely fine.

But use it without provocation and I take a different view. What fans from other clubs want to have religious chanting taking place at their grounds? Especially if they've said or done nothing to provoke it. It becomes a case of us imposing a religious viewpoint when none was sought or justified.

Raised amidst the sectarian divides of Belfast and Glasgow - as a Presbyterian (lapsed), now married to a French-Canadian Catholic (equally lapsed) - I just cannot stomach religiously-orientated chants or songs. It has nothing to do with sport. Can you imagine Rangers fans chanting 'Prod Army' without suffering terrible consequences? ( I know, they've said worse)

I don't see how Spurs make themselves a bigger, better supported club with this sort of very limited approach to supporting the club. I was in a bar in Toronto watching Spurs with a diverse group of fans and this big geezer sees us go close to scoring and starts belting out "YidArmy, YidArmy, YidArmy."

Not one fellow Spurs fan joined in. People just looked at him like he was nuts. That's how the rest of the world views this. And the game has long gone global in its appeal and audience.
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I'm with you all the way on this. What narks me though is that reining in the chants would be trumpeted as a victory for that brick Baddiel.
 
Spur of the moment said:
I'm with you all the way on this. What narks me though is that reining in the chants would be trumpeted as a victory for that brick Baddiel.
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I suppose we could take the line that if the likes of Baddiel are unwilling to do something about fellow Chelsea fans and prefer the easier route of throwing stones, we should rise above it. The chant has had its time and perhaps it is time to drop it.
 
jts1882 said:
I suppose we could take the line that if the likes of Baddiel are unwilling to do something about fellow Chelsea fans and prefer the easier route of throwing stones, we should rise above it. The chant has had its time and perhaps it is time to drop it.
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Like I alluded, if they stopped their nonsense, I'd agree.
But let's say we stop, but they keep hissing. Would our Jewish community prefer no one said anything, and sit and listen to it being ignored, or would they prefer a roaring rendition of Yid Army! From 50,000 fellow spurs supporters? It's the reason we took it on in the first place.
Anyway, I agree, in an ideal world it would be dropped.
 
What if no one said nowt when the hissing starting? Not saying ignore it. Just go quiet and let every microphone in the stadium pick it up. Turn up the volume and share it on social media. Tell the PL and the FA that the away section is now closed to Chelsea supporters until action is taken.

Or Rudiger apologizes for maligning Spurs fans whom he accused of racist chanting when we all know it never happened.
 
elyid said:
"...a supporter of or player for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club"

Surely that ends any debate? of Yiddo at least.

The dictionary definition is literally a supporter or player, how is that offensive.
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Hardly, just because it’s in the dictionary doesn’t mean it’s inoffensive.
Plenty of racist, homophobic and generally offensive words in there already.
 
Aldo said:
Hardly, just because it’s in the dictionary doesn’t mean it’s inoffensive.
Plenty of racist, homophobic and generally offensive words in there already.
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Think the point is, the term in the English language has evolved. "yid" used in written text with its previous meaning probably would date back 100 years or more. Now yid yiddo are used commonly - but only in a spurs context. Those who constantly emphasise the history of the term are dragging up an outdated meaning. That suited David Badeal to move the focus off chelsea fans hissing. When Badeal brought it up (about 10 years ago?) most modern spurs supporters didn't have a clue about the history of the term. Which just shows it had evolved.
 
Aldo said:
Hardly, just because it’s in the dictionary doesn’t mean it’s inoffensive.
Plenty of racist, homophobic and generally offensive words in there already.
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In those cases it is usually marked as "offensive, slang" - this isn't (at least not for this context).
 
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